• QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml
    19·
    6 months ago

    and all non-combatants

    This person does not live in reality. I don’t want to have a full ban like hexbear, but can we limit the low quality posting with dime a dozen liberals. By all means post unique and recent bad takes even if they’re easily debunkable, but this is jus boring.

  • amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml
    6·
    6 months ago

    Nope, never, it will ALWAYS look bad.

    I think that about sums up their position. People like that don’t think in terms of human life and the value of it. They think in terms of optics and philosophical moral quandaries. It is pointless arguing with them on that level because they are not arguing about real lives and consequences of actions, even if they claim that’s what it’s about. Their arguments make as much effort as possible to move away from reality and embrace hypotheticals and truisms, where they can make you look foolish for being on the wrong side of a dichotomy.

    These sort of people who go for truisms want to be able to ally with the “perfect victim.” It is not so much about keeping people safe, but about protecting their own sense of moral purity by association.

    So I recommend to people, rather than arguing with such people on the hypotheticals and the truisms, go back to the facts. The Nakba, the decades of settler-colonialism hurting people on a systematic and systemic level. How that is not some thing in the distant past, but is very much ongoing. People act like history there began on October 7th when it was a blip of resistance in an ongoing struggle, with the majority of violence being israel hurting Palestine and its people. The majority of power: israel. The disinterest in any kind of peace: israel. The devaluing of hostages: israel. The majority of hostages: Palestinian people that israel holds. The months and months of bombing that has followed October 7th: israel bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure.

    • Abolish Amerikkka@lemmygrad.mlOP
      30·
      6 months ago

      Settlers are not innocent. They benefit from an apartheid state and almost all adults in Israel are part of the IDF. Only children are innocent in the Zionist state.

    • QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml
      18·
      6 months ago

      I agree a bit that some people’s rhetoric is imprecise and can turn people off who might otherwise be convinced. What we should be doing is debunking the idea that hamas targets civilians, pointing to the fact that at least 90% of the people killed on October 7 were actual IDF combatants.

      Edit: when people have moral disagreements with us we should not simply spit in the face of their morals (assuming they’re salvageable), because while morals are inherently subjective it is not hard to convince most people that communism is most moral. Maybe I’m an opportunist, but tell people what it takes to draw them in to socialism.

    • Idliketothinkimsmart@lemmygrad.ml
      17·
      6 months ago

      The majority of people killed were indeed combatants/ security forces. The list of names Israel released months ago proved that.

      A sizeable portion of “civilians” killed were killed by Israeli fire

      • OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
        12·
        6 months ago

        Even if the non-combatant non-Palestinians who were killed were actually the majority and they were killed by Hamas, it would still be their fault to a varying extend. We have:

        1. People who consciously decided to be colonial settlers and gladly accepted to occupy a Palestinian house just a few kilometres away from the Gaza fence.

        2. People who had previously supported Israel and its armed thugs, who once were armed thugs themselves, and who decided it would be an excellent idea to run out of buildings and run towards said armed thugs, thinking they’d save them.

        3. People who consciously decided to attend a music festival right next to the world’s largest concentration camp.

        EDIT: Also, look for no further proof of Hamas’ and Hezzbolah’s moral code than their battle videos. Firstly, their transparency is unparalleled compared to any other armed force in the world. Secondly, they film almost everything, and they don’t do it “for propaganda” but for posterity, since everyone ignores their struggle and successes otherwise. Thirdly, their videos are easily verifiable, since they include precise location and dates. So what do these videos show? Exclusively fighting against military targets, ambushing soldiers, attacking bases or destroying military vehicles. Even from just the news, we know they never target civilian centers. So fuck this narrative

        • triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml
          21·
          6 months ago
          1. children who have no realistic ability to leave or resist the settler colony their parents decided to participate in

          Ignoring this category is a gift to Zionists

    • idkmybffjoeysteel [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      16·
      6 months ago

      Liberals love to hand wring about the ethics of armed resistance but when an actual genocide is going on they can’t stop themselves from supporting it. I heard Biden was “pissed of” with Netanyahu behind closed doors before shipping another $1b in weapons.

      Having said that, almost everyone that was killed was a member of the armed forces. A good portion of the rest were proven to killed by Israeli friendly fire. Many of the hostages themselves have been killed by the bloodthirsty IOF since then.

      and having said all that, settler-colonists that have actively invaded and occupied other people’s land do in fact deserve at the very least express deliverance to face eternal torture in hell

      also framing the conversation like “do you condemn hummous” and not “do you condemn 70+ years of Israeli occupation and apartheid” really says a lot