Archived page, if you’re paywalled or region-blocked.
He had a knife… on a stick.
I’ll need to see the video on this one, officers, but for now, mark me as damned skeptical that this killing was self-defense.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
What more do you want them to do?
This is something I’d like more information on. How did he withstand two taser shots and several beanbags? Did he shrug them off? Did he just keep getting up? Did they only make him more agitated? What made the officers decide that lethal force was necessary?
What is so hard to believe about someone taping a knife to a stick?
He doubts this man had to die. Qualified police should have been able ro subdue him without deadly force.
Would you try and subdue someone like that? Because I wouldn’t.
There are more choices in any given situation than just “do nothing” or “extreme”
Such as?
Deescalate for one.
What makes you think they didn’t try?
Because they’re cops.
Would you do it if you had a taser, a baton, years of training, and a radio to call for backup?
Do you know they didn’t try the tazer?
And no, I’m not taking on someone armed with a knife with a baton, what the hell is wrong with you?
My favorite thing about you making dumbass comments all over the place in this post is you obviously haven’t even read the article lmao.
You don’t even know if what your saying has anything to do with the situation. You have no idea what even happened.
Yeah, that’s why I was careful when writing my own. The article only gives a vague description of what happened. Even then, most of those descriptions come from people who need their actions to look justified, so they don’t lose their jobs or face charges.
Yeah, that’s the truth. We don’t know the truth, except that someone’s dead. Won’t know the truth until the cops share the video, if they do.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
Would you look at that, turns out they did.
Look at that. The wonders of reading.
You sound like a cop.
Are you a cop? Because people who wouldn’t shouldn’t be.
That’s not what I asked you.
But it’s the right answer. If it’s not your job you don’t have to be willing to risk your life to save another. You’re asking an irrelevant question and you know it.
What right do you have to expect someone else to do it, if you wouldn’t do so yourself?
Every?
No one is forced to be a cop.
I wouldn’t jump into a fire either, but I’d be pissed if someone chose to be a firefighter and refused to fight fire.
What right do you have to expect someone else to do it, if you wouldn’t do so yourself?
I wouldn’t fly a plane so am I not allowed to travel via air? I wouldn’t drive a bus so I can’t send my kid off to school on the bus? I wouldn’t teach children math so I shouldn’t let my kid go to math class? Make your question make sense please. I didn’t force anyone to be a cop and as far as I know, no point in the history of the United States of America has an individual been forced to be a police officer. If you choose a dangerous job you have to be willing to face those dangers. You wouldn’t trust a surgeon who’s afraid of blood to perform open heart surgery, why should I trust a cop who is afraid of a knife to protect me from thieves?
Edit: missed a word
Yeah. Can and have, plenty of times, armed with nothing and fully expected not to damage the people living in the facility.
I can’t say I’ve never gotten bumps or bruises and it isn’t a job for everybody, but I’d argue that statement then goes double for someone who’s expected to respond to this sort of thing in a less controlled environment.
How many of them had knives?
Several! Knives, improvised clubs, chains, I’ve seen all kinds of stuff
I’ve now better clarified my skepticism.
Was: "… mark me as damned skeptical."
New and improved: “… mark me as damned skeptical that this killing was self-defense.”
Would you personally try and subdue someone like that without deadly force? Because I wouldn’t.
Here’s an idea: Maybe we shouldn’t be trying to SUBDUE people who are having mental health crises. Maybe we should try some de-escalation. Maybe we should try to get them to accept sedating meds. Shit, maybe we should hit them with sedating meds from a fucking tranq gun. I can think of several steps along the path long before we arrive at “shucks, guess we had no other option but to murder them” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am NOT an expert on the topic, so if someone with more knowledge has something to add, please do. Anyway:
Tranquilizers do not work like they do in movies. It’s not uncommon for tranquilizers to require several minutes to take full effect, and a dangerous person can do a lot of damage before losing consciousness. (I’m not trying to suggest that the person in this case qualifies as “dangerous”.)
Also, the tranquilizer dosage needs to be adjusted according to the body mass of the target. There’s no “universal” tranquilizer dart that’s safe to use on both a skinny teen and large adult. Too little tranquilizer, and it will be only partially effective or not effective at all. Too much, and it can be deadly, which negates the point of using a tranquilizer in the first place.
Lastly, there’s the problem of drug interactions. Even if the dosage was correct, one or more tranquilizer ingredients could have an adverse reaction with any medications or other drugs that may be in someone’s system. Actually, even without any drugs playing a role, tranquilizers can still be dangerous. A person’s system can react badly to tranquilizers for any number of reasons. An ambulance and team of paramedics would need to be on site.
I do see your point, and I agree that there should be a much greater emphasis on de-escalation techniques. Unfortunately, tranquilizers aren’t the easy answer that they appear to be.
I’m a nurse. We tranq people in healthcare regularly when they become a danger to others. “Danger to self and others” is not the moment where we worry too much about dosage calculations, allergies, or drug interactions. If you’re about to hurt someone, you’re getting intramuscular haldol. They will need immediate medical attention, but it’s much better than murdering them.
Lol I didn’t realize I was talking to a nurse! You know more about potential medical issues than I do. I appreciate the feedback!
Haha, no worries. I realized it wasn’t clear that I wasn’t just speculating lol. Like I get that someone with a bladed weapon is a threat, but if they’re isolated from immediately harming another person, then trying to talk then down should always be the first option. It IS possible to talk a psychotic person into taking medications voluntarily, if you can calm them down a little. Or talk them into putting down a weapon so you can get them with an IM dose. (I’m kidding about the tranq gun lol, but seriously deploying something like that would be a better option than using an actual gun ffs.)
It’s a little amazing to me how many members of the general public are chomping at the bit to dehumanize people with mental illnesses who get agitated. Y’all, I guarantee I’ve dosed your dementia grandma when she got wigged out and started kicking people and trying to yank out her IV line. Agitation is a temporary psychological state, not a character trait. People don’t deserve to be murdered because they got flipped out.
Is it possible to do this with a dart though, or does this require an injection?
I’m glad someone else is looking at this rationally.
Shit, maybe we should hit them with sedating meds from a fucking tranq gun.
You guys are off the deep end.
The deep end is murdering people with a mental health crisis.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
Sounds like they exhausted every other option to me.
So just so I’m clear…
Shooting him = Totally justified
Incapacitating him = off the deep end
Must be a fun reality to live in buddy
You’re off the deep end for thinking that would work, tranquiliser darts aren’t really a thing for people.
Tranquilizers do work on humans though. So do tasers or several other non-lethal options, which is really the point people are making while you’re choosing to be pedantic.
🤡
Wouldn’t that be a spear?
With proper materials and construction. Duct taped to a dry stick and it likely would be less lethal than a knife alone, as it’d likely break from swinging force without even hitting something.
