These stories almost never mention fuel used, or fuel cost, in case someone does the math and figures out just how expensive these vehicles are to run.
Because that’s not the point, hydrogen is the most abundant fuel we have access to. The idea that we shouldn’t be using it is just dumb. It’s what’s more than likely going to fuel our ships to other planets eventually. It’s one of the reasons finding water on planets and moons is a big deal. The thought from the battery crew that we shouldn’t pursue hydrogen is just stupid.
We’re still pursuing it. Batteries do not work for basically anything other than average passenger vehicles in the city or near cities. They do not work in construction, they do not work for heavy equipment, long haulers or even large sea vessels…they do not work for shit in aircraft that carry anything other than itself or tiny payloads…and they really are pointless for any sort of space propulsion. A mixed energy planet is what is needed, not this “batteries are the end all be all” thought so many of you have.
There are applications for hydrogen vehicles, but commuter trains aren’t one of them, especially since weight isn’t really much of an issue, so we can just keep adding batteries to get whatever range we need.
Yep, but you’re suggesting that a train which with a diesel motor that weighs that much, wouldn’t be an issue with batteries. If you are going electric, skip the batteries and go over head tram lines and be done with it.
Most of the items you mention are being overtaken by better batteries. Long haul trucking batteries will likely be at cost parity with diesel trucks this year. Big cargo ships should probably go to SMRs. Airplanes no longer look as out of reach as they once appeared.
Space flight is such a specialized use case. Of course hydrogen will be the predominant fuel there. More because there’s limited options than anything else.
None of what you have is being done on a large scale because it doesn’t scale. Batteries are good for basically close cities where range isn’t an issue and super chargers are easily accessible. Everywhere else they do not hold up. You will never see a battery operated crane or some farm equipment, it’s just not possible with our current tech. If batteries magically decrease in weight, cost way less, are rechargeable in 5mins from basically and 110/120 outlet then sure, but for everything that isn’t some nice paved road and a semi short trip, it’s not happening.
Lol, yes all farms have power to the fields…lol the fuck are you smoking. I own a farm, some days I’m running my tractor 10-12 hours straight…no one I know in my community who does any crops or hay would buy that.
It really depends on what you’re farming, but vineyards etc tend to be quite a small area with a yard that all the machinery returns to at the end of the day, I doubt it would be much of a hassle to come back to the yard and charge at lunchtime.
Yes…those 4 hours must be amazing…then it needs to be plugged in…to a what? O right a generator that runs on diesel. You clearly do not understand how construction or anything heavy equipment works do you?
Edit: oh, and these can go a full 8 hours, and have interchangeable packs if you want to go longer. This is an odd definition of “never” that you have.
Long haul trucking batteries will likely be at cost parity with diesel trucks this year.
We have 2 electric Volvo FHs with everything else speced exactly like my diesel powered Volvo FH 500 turbo compound (gearbox, final drive, tyres, cab/cab equipment).
With my 1265 litre tanks, I go about 4000 kilometres - load dependant - against their max 300 kilometre range - also load dependant. It takes me 15 minutes at a fast pump to fill the tanks. It takes the EVs 30 minutes to get to 80% on a fast-charger.
They cost more than double my ICE to purchase. The price has a long way to fall, ignoring the range completely. Battery powered trucks are only good for the ‘last mile’ deliveries, everything else needs to be hydrogen powered.
Not if you do it simultaneously… cost is higher than just rail, but rains wouldn’t have range limits at all, and would weigh less, meaning less energy used to accelerate (and better emergency brake response).
I’m very pro EV, but even more a fan of distributed power systems that aren’t chemical based.
We can consider it a relatively straightforward upgrade to the system though. Definitely more expensive than upgrading individual trainsets to h2 or lithium, and nowhere near as quick… But it could be staged, or just the mainlines.
Imagine mainlines get electrified so EV or h2 trains use none of their onboard energy, until they start getting onto the unelectrified branches.
That’s exactly what New Zealand is doing with battery electric trains, the plan is for them to run on batteries once they get beyond the overhead line network, to service areas where it’s not worthwhile to have overhead lines.
Not with hydrogen trains though, that’s a dead end technology.
It trades off expensive up front costs for having cheaper train engines. Which is better if you want high volume with many runs per day. Which is what trains are best at in the first place.
Yea totally why large companies are still pursuing it, apparently you and all the EV fanboys know something they don’t.
Also you saying it’s really hard to do something is like the same people who said we shouldn’t be flying, it’s to hard. That’s not how innovation works. To you eating raw meat and living in caves is where humanity should have stopped apparently, because everything else is hard to do.
These stories almost never mention fuel used, or fuel cost, in case someone does the math and figures out just how expensive these vehicles are to run.
Because that’s not the point, hydrogen is the most abundant fuel we have access to. The idea that we shouldn’t be using it is just dumb. It’s what’s more than likely going to fuel our ships to other planets eventually. It’s one of the reasons finding water on planets and moons is a big deal. The thought from the battery crew that we shouldn’t pursue hydrogen is just stupid.
We did pursue it. Batteries won for common use cases. There may yet be niches where it’s useful, but they’ll be the exception.
We’re still pursuing it. Batteries do not work for basically anything other than average passenger vehicles in the city or near cities. They do not work in construction, they do not work for heavy equipment, long haulers or even large sea vessels…they do not work for shit in aircraft that carry anything other than itself or tiny payloads…and they really are pointless for any sort of space propulsion. A mixed energy planet is what is needed, not this “batteries are the end all be all” thought so many of you have.
They don’t work in construction?
Don’t work for long haul?
There are applications for hydrogen vehicles, but commuter trains aren’t one of them, especially since weight isn’t really much of an issue, so we can just keep adding batteries to get whatever range we need.
Weight is always an issue, who told you it isn’t? And sounds like you know something these engineers don’t.
Some locomotives alone weigh hundreds of tonnes, while weight is an issue, it’s less of an issue than most applications.
Yep, but you’re suggesting that a train which with a diesel motor that weighs that much, wouldn’t be an issue with batteries. If you are going electric, skip the batteries and go over head tram lines and be done with it.
Easy to say when you’re not paying for it.
Most of the items you mention are being overtaken by better batteries. Long haul trucking batteries will likely be at cost parity with diesel trucks this year. Big cargo ships should probably go to SMRs. Airplanes no longer look as out of reach as they once appeared.
Space flight is such a specialized use case. Of course hydrogen will be the predominant fuel there. More because there’s limited options than anything else.
None of what you have is being done on a large scale because it doesn’t scale. Batteries are good for basically close cities where range isn’t an issue and super chargers are easily accessible. Everywhere else they do not hold up. You will never see a battery operated crane or some farm equipment, it’s just not possible with our current tech. If batteries magically decrease in weight, cost way less, are rechargeable in 5mins from basically and 110/120 outlet then sure, but for everything that isn’t some nice paved road and a semi short trip, it’s not happening.
Doesn’t work for agriculture?
Also, farms often have a beefy three phase incoming mains, or even an onsite transformer, so installing a DC charger isn’t a big problem.
Lol, yes all farms have power to the fields…lol the fuck are you smoking. I own a farm, some days I’m running my tractor 10-12 hours straight…no one I know in my community who does any crops or hay would buy that.
It really depends on what you’re farming, but vineyards etc tend to be quite a small area with a yard that all the machinery returns to at the end of the day, I doubt it would be much of a hassle to come back to the yard and charge at lunchtime.
Battery cranes already exist: https://www.liebherr.com/en/usa/products/mobile-and-crawler-cranes/crawler-cranes/lr-crawler-cranes/details/lr1200unplugged.html
Do you have any more easily dismissed claims?
Yes…those 4 hours must be amazing…then it needs to be plugged in…to a what? O right a generator that runs on diesel. You clearly do not understand how construction or anything heavy equipment works do you?
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Edit: oh, and these can go a full 8 hours, and have interchangeable packs if you want to go longer. This is an odd definition of “never” that you have.
Plug it in at Smoko.
And almost any construction site will have power on site.
We have 2 electric Volvo FHs with everything else speced exactly like my diesel powered Volvo FH 500 turbo compound (gearbox, final drive, tyres, cab/cab equipment). With my 1265 litre tanks, I go about 4000 kilometres - load dependant - against their max 300 kilometre range - also load dependant. It takes me 15 minutes at a fast pump to fill the tanks. It takes the EVs 30 minutes to get to 80% on a fast-charger. They cost more than double my ICE to purchase. The price has a long way to fall, ignoring the range completely. Battery powered trucks are only good for the ‘last mile’ deliveries, everything else needs to be hydrogen powered.
hydrogen is not a fuel. You have to make it, and you always get less energy out than you put into doing so.
It’s a very inefficient battery. On a vehicle that has no weight concerns.
You’re like the guy who found oil and said it’s not a fuel.
Yeah, but it’s attached to other molecules, and it’s really hard to separate the stuff.
Hydrogen is a really shitty and inefficient battery, it would be cheaper, easier, and more efficient to just put batteries on the train.
Or an overhead wire and don’t worry about batteries.
Overhead lines are almost as expensive as laying the track in the first place though.
Not if you do it simultaneously… cost is higher than just rail, but rains wouldn’t have range limits at all, and would weigh less, meaning less energy used to accelerate (and better emergency brake response).
I’m very pro EV, but even more a fan of distributed power systems that aren’t chemical based.
That ship has, for the most part, sailed though.
We can consider it a relatively straightforward upgrade to the system though. Definitely more expensive than upgrading individual trainsets to h2 or lithium, and nowhere near as quick… But it could be staged, or just the mainlines.
Imagine mainlines get electrified so EV or h2 trains use none of their onboard energy, until they start getting onto the unelectrified branches.
That’s exactly what New Zealand is doing with battery electric trains, the plan is for them to run on batteries once they get beyond the overhead line network, to service areas where it’s not worthwhile to have overhead lines.
Not with hydrogen trains though, that’s a dead end technology.
It trades off expensive up front costs for having cheaper train engines. Which is better if you want high volume with many runs per day. Which is what trains are best at in the first place.
Yea totally why large companies are still pursuing it, apparently you and all the EV fanboys know something they don’t.
Also you saying it’s really hard to do something is like the same people who said we shouldn’t be flying, it’s to hard. That’s not how innovation works. To you eating raw meat and living in caves is where humanity should have stopped apparently, because everything else is hard to do.
OK buddy.
You can lookup the industrial cost of hydrogen in bulk pretty easy. Stop complaining and get some work done.
Can you now? How much does hydrogen in industrial quantities cost? Because, believe me, I’ve tried to find this information.
I can tell you the pump price in California though.