You’re confusing belief, knowledge, and conviction, it’s a common issue with common, imprecise, language.
A sceptic would proportion their conviction of a position according to the available evidence. As there is no evidence to support any specific god, and some evidence against several gods, it is rational to be tentatively convinced there is no god. That position is atheist.
There are of course also other ways at arriving to an atheist position, not all of them reasonable.
You are however also engaging in either dishonest argumentation or esoteric sophistry horribly misreading the current discussion. It is reasonable, and polite, to assume a person knows their own mind better than any external person, and if prompted, has right of interpretation to their own beliefs, knowledge and convictions.
It’s unreasonable, and unproductive, for me to assert you’re secretly a Russian propagandist, and even more so when you say you aren’t. I cannot know this better than you, and either I trust you to engage this conversation honestly, accurately describing your propagandist status, or I don’t, and we have nothing more to gain from a discussion.
To adress your argument: the person is convinced they take an atheist position. You accusing them of unknowingly being a theist is thus absurd and/or dishonest.
It is reasonable, and polite, to assume a person knows their own mind better than any external person, and if prompted, has right of interpretation to their own beliefs, knowledge and convictions.
No, I disagree. I agree with you that we have the right to interpret our own intentions freely, because intentions cannot reliably be externally sensed. But let me give an example as to our beliefs and biases.
Suppose I’m a scientist conducting trials on a new drug. I gather a group of volunteer test subjects, and begin trials to compare the drug to a placebo. However, after they take the drug (and placebo), some of the test subjects come to me and say “You don’t have to test me, doc. I’m immune to placebos. I can feel this working, so I know I’m in the experimental group and I know the drug works great.”
If I were to apply your idea that you can’t mistrust someone else’s biases and beliefs about themself, then I would have to take their word and my science would be garbage.
To adress your argument: the person is convinced they take an atheist position
Yes, my question proved that very neatly, didn’t it? They didn’t think they had any belief in being an atheist, and that the final line of the original meme was therefore nonsense. But I used a very elegant question to prove that they do have belief in being an atheist.
You seem fundamentally confused about this topic, unwilling to listen, and unequipped to further your understanding of neither crux, domain nor dialogue. We will not get further in this discussion.
You’re confusing belief, knowledge, and conviction, it’s a common issue with common, imprecise, language.
A sceptic would proportion their conviction of a position according to the available evidence. As there is no evidence to support any specific god, and some evidence against several gods, it is rational to be tentatively convinced there is no god. That position is atheist.
There are of course also other ways at arriving to an atheist position, not all of them reasonable.
You are however also engaging in either dishonest argumentation or esoteric sophistry horribly misreading the current discussion. It is reasonable, and polite, to assume a person knows their own mind better than any external person, and if prompted, has right of interpretation to their own beliefs, knowledge and convictions.
It’s unreasonable, and unproductive, for me to assert you’re secretly a Russian propagandist, and even more so when you say you aren’t. I cannot know this better than you, and either I trust you to engage this conversation honestly, accurately describing your propagandist status, or I don’t, and we have nothing more to gain from a discussion.
To adress your argument: the person is convinced they take an atheist position. You accusing them of unknowingly being a theist is thus absurd and/or dishonest.
No, I disagree. I agree with you that we have the right to interpret our own intentions freely, because intentions cannot reliably be externally sensed. But let me give an example as to our beliefs and biases.
Suppose I’m a scientist conducting trials on a new drug. I gather a group of volunteer test subjects, and begin trials to compare the drug to a placebo. However, after they take the drug (and placebo), some of the test subjects come to me and say “You don’t have to test me, doc. I’m immune to placebos. I can feel this working, so I know I’m in the experimental group and I know the drug works great.”
If I were to apply your idea that you can’t mistrust someone else’s biases and beliefs about themself, then I would have to take their word and my science would be garbage.
Yes, my question proved that very neatly, didn’t it? They didn’t think they had any belief in being an atheist, and that the final line of the original meme was therefore nonsense. But I used a very elegant question to prove that they do have belief in being an atheist.
You seem fundamentally confused about this topic, unwilling to listen, and unequipped to further your understanding of neither crux, domain nor dialogue. We will not get further in this discussion.
Best of luck in your endeavours.
You think you can talk to me that way? Do you? Well have a lovely day too! I hope you find peace and enlightenment!
Love this actually, very funny <3