• Mastengwe
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    Not accepting that the opposition will do more than arm the genocide is the problem here. On top of ALL the other shit he has already done, and promises to do.

    You’ll risk losing American democracy over a single issue that is going to be FAR worse under the opposition.

    Everthing said that you’re responding to is 100% true of the agenda you’ve hitched your wagon to. It’s manufactured outrage. And it’s childish.

    • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Joe Biden can’t claim to care about American Democracy while ignoring a majority of his voters on core issues.

      • Mastengwe
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        I get that you have your propaganda you need to shill, but as everyone has already told you- Trump will do the same, and much worse additionally. You just refuse to acknowledge this because it’s not part of your programming.

        And you’re not the majority of his voters.

        • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          15
          ·
          2 months ago

          If you have all the information, educate me. I have a hard time understanding people who don’t dispute their is a genocide in Gaza, yet they still vote shame anti genocide voters.

          Do you believe Biden and Israel is committing a full on genocide in Gaza but trump will start genocides in other places so it’s better to vote Biden?

          Or do you believe what Biden and Israel are doing is relatively minor and would be much worse under a trump presidency?

          • Mastengwe
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            I believe Israel is- absolutely. However, I believe… no, I KNOW- that they’d be doing it without Biden being involved in any way. In fact, they’re so stockpiled that they’re barely using what Biden is sending.

            And directly accusing Biden of genocide is about as ignorant as one can be on the subject. He has no authority to commit genocide in a country he’s not at war with, or has any ability to dictate such actions as a proxy on behalf of another country. Your manufactured outrage and goalpost moving is not something that the majority of people stand behind.

            Again- The atrocities carried out by Israel is not something that wouldn’t be happening if America had nothing to do with it. But I’m sure you know this already- it just stands in the way of your agenda.

            • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              2 months ago

              OK, just to clarify, you believe Biden has no leavage to stop Israel and they aren’t reliant on the tens of billions in weapons aid or the diplomatic help we gift them?

              • Mastengwe
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                It’s pretty well known and documented fact. It’s not a belief. It’s just…. Reality.

                Biden doesn’t call the shots in Israel. I’m not sure if anyone told you, but he’s the president of the United States ONLY.

                I know you’ve been told this isn’t the case, and that cognitive dissonance will stand in the way of you accepting this, but reality doesn’t really care how you feel about it.

                • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  I don’t necessarily disagree with that. I would hope Biden has leverage, Israel is a client state after all. But it’s also true that the Israeli government is fiercely independent as you said earlier.

                  If the US weapon shipements don’t matter to Israel, Biden should hold shipments while he investigates crimes of genocide. He should also withhold diplomatic cover. That will help Biden at home, he can better show he’s trying to stop the genocide. And it may even get the far RW government ruling over Israel voted out of office. Biden is the best candidate in 2024, but I believe he can only win if he proves he’s doing everything to help the ME stay out of war. And what he has been doing isn’t enough IMO.

                  • Mastengwe
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 months ago

                    Fair enough. But my original point is that people are so committed to this single issue to push Biden to do the right thing that they’re withholding their vote and suggesting others do so- while wholeheartedly acknowledging that it would be exponentially worse under Trump.

                    This is why so many people think they’re right-wing propaganda trolls. Because with what we know about what Trump has done, and promises to do- how could anyone suggest not voting as an option?