the context that lead to the statement being made in the first place.
But I don’t think that context is necessary to agree/disagree with the statement. What context could men’s feelings be more important that women’s safety?
i provided one in the above statement which was a very literal interpretation of that statement, which quite literally interprets the fact that your feelings sometimes provide negative influence to your perceived safety. To use a specific example here, you may have a fear of heights, which leads to you feeling “unsafe” at heights, even though it’s a psychological adaptation that you have causing it. Although in that case it’s pretty well understood to be a psychological adaptation of something, so that’s not a common thing.
Sorry, I was expecting something worded like “I feel less safe up high because I am afraid of heights so how can feelings be less important than safety”, so I didn’t catch your example.
Yeah, I think that someone could interpret it like that. But I feel like you could pretty easily explain that feeling safe and being actually safe are not the same things. Someone who is confused can easily be caught up and someone who is being malicious would have a hard time not looking silly. I feel like this level of confusion would have a pretty low occurrence count. So I feel like this specific confusion would be a reasonable risk.
If you say a statement and someone goes “yeah no i don’t get that”
My issue with this is that depends on the people joining the conversation. Also depends on how malicious they are. Like if someone didn’t know what “safety” meant. You can solve this by copy-pasting the dictionary definition of “safety”, but then then the next person who joins might not understand the concept of feelings, or not understand some of the words in the definition of “safety”. This is a never ending task.
I think a better way is to target a specific audience. You will lose people outside of that target, but that is unavoidable and will happen with any strategy. Hopefully some of them ask questions or for clarifications, so your message can spread to those groups. I think it is important to be as inclusive as you can be. But most people on here (including me) are doing this in their spare time. So it’s not like we have much flexibility to improve things.
That all being said, I think this meme was well targeted and effective. Did we solve the problem, no, that was never possible to begin with. But we did provide nice discussion about it. We let the extremists show off how silly they were. We let confused people ask questions and get answers. We gave the general public a good showing so they can decide what is right and wrong.
bringing it down to something like “safety is more important than feelings” is so inherently vague
In my mind this is as vague as the original post when it comes to the truth of the statement. The only difference is adding genders which doesn’t affect the meaning of the statement.
But I don’t think that context is necessary to agree/disagree with the statement. What context could men’s feelings be more important that women’s safety?
there’s two primary statements here, i’m talking about the less specific one, the more specific one is generally fine. But to humor you regardless, i think if you don’t have context to something, you simply don’t have the full understanding of it, or capability to think about it in the same way as the person presenting it, which often causes issues. To humor you in a literal manner, men having the feeling that raping women is a thing that shouldn’t happen, is probably more important than womens physical safety.
Yeah, I think that someone could interpret it like that. But I feel like you could pretty easily explain that feeling safe and being actually safe are not the same things. Someone who is confused can easily be caught up and someone who is being malicious would have a hard time not looking silly. I feel like this level of confusion would have a pretty low occurrence count. So I feel like this specific confusion would be a reasonable risk.
yeah, but given that in this case, it’s basically the difference of two words, i think it’s probably fair to assume the more contextual version is better. I would get it if this were like, paragraphs worth of detail, but considering we’re at the level of like, 5 words. It’s probably hard to convey a message with that so it’s generally better to aim for the side of detail rather.
Yeah, I think that someone could interpret it like that. But I feel like you could pretty easily explain that feeling safe and being actually safe are not the same things. Someone who is confused can easily be caught up and someone who is being malicious would have a hard time not looking silly. I feel like this level of confusion would have a pretty low occurrence count. So I feel like this specific confusion would be a reasonable risk.
to nit pick a little bit here, technically pasting the definition of safety probably wouldn’t help, considering that it’s describing physical safety, and we’re generally talking about felt safety here.
I think a better way is to target a specific audience. You will lose people outside of that target, but that is unavoidable and will happen with any strategy. Hopefully some of them ask questions or for clarifications, so your message can spread to those groups. I think it is important to be as inclusive as you can be. But most people on here (including me) are doing this in their spare time. So it’s not like we have much flexibility to improve things.
yeah targeting an audience here will help a lot with that, problem here is that i’m not sure what audience we’re supposed to be targeting? because last i checked it was all of men, or at the very least, the ones that rape women. That seems like a pretty broad audience to me, so i feel like if that’s the intended target it should probably be more self contained in that respect. Then again this might also be lemmy specific? But even then i’m not really sure how significant that would be. With really short statements intended to make a point you often tend to run into the issue of reach, how do you most effectively reach people, while still functionally explaining the situation at hand. It’s why public speaking is a literal career.
That all being said, I think this meme was well targeted and effective. Did we solve the problem, no, that was never possible to begin with. But we did provide nice discussion about it. We let the extremists show off how silly they were. We let confused people ask questions and get answers. We gave the general public a good showing so they can decide what is right and wrong.
yeah the meme in this post is pretty good. The previous threads? Eh, i would describe those as more of a shitshow, than anything else. This really seemed like the tumblrcon of lemmy to me more than anything. Or maybe the most recent CPAC of lemmy? That was a weird conference…
In my mind this is as vague as the original post when it comes to the truth of the statement. The only difference is adding genders which doesn’t affect the meaning of the statement.
yeah and in a sense i suppose that’s kind of my problem with it, i didn’t like the original statement because it didn’t do a very good job articulating the point it was supposed to articulate, and i liked this one, because it did a pretty solid job of it, and then people immediately proceeded to remove two words from it in order to make it much worse, for some reason.
But I don’t think that context is necessary to agree/disagree with the statement. What context could men’s feelings be more important that women’s safety?
Sorry, I was expecting something worded like “I feel less safe up high because I am afraid of heights so how can feelings be less important than safety”, so I didn’t catch your example.
Yeah, I think that someone could interpret it like that. But I feel like you could pretty easily explain that feeling safe and being actually safe are not the same things. Someone who is confused can easily be caught up and someone who is being malicious would have a hard time not looking silly. I feel like this level of confusion would have a pretty low occurrence count. So I feel like this specific confusion would be a reasonable risk.
My issue with this is that depends on the people joining the conversation. Also depends on how malicious they are. Like if someone didn’t know what “safety” meant. You can solve this by copy-pasting the dictionary definition of “safety”, but then then the next person who joins might not understand the concept of feelings, or not understand some of the words in the definition of “safety”. This is a never ending task.
I think a better way is to target a specific audience. You will lose people outside of that target, but that is unavoidable and will happen with any strategy. Hopefully some of them ask questions or for clarifications, so your message can spread to those groups. I think it is important to be as inclusive as you can be. But most people on here (including me) are doing this in their spare time. So it’s not like we have much flexibility to improve things.
That all being said, I think this meme was well targeted and effective. Did we solve the problem, no, that was never possible to begin with. But we did provide nice discussion about it. We let the extremists show off how silly they were. We let confused people ask questions and get answers. We gave the general public a good showing so they can decide what is right and wrong.
In my mind this is as vague as the original post when it comes to the truth of the statement. The only difference is adding genders which doesn’t affect the meaning of the statement.
there’s two primary statements here, i’m talking about the less specific one, the more specific one is generally fine. But to humor you regardless, i think if you don’t have context to something, you simply don’t have the full understanding of it, or capability to think about it in the same way as the person presenting it, which often causes issues. To humor you in a literal manner, men having the feeling that raping women is a thing that shouldn’t happen, is probably more important than womens physical safety.
yeah, but given that in this case, it’s basically the difference of two words, i think it’s probably fair to assume the more contextual version is better. I would get it if this were like, paragraphs worth of detail, but considering we’re at the level of like, 5 words. It’s probably hard to convey a message with that so it’s generally better to aim for the side of detail rather.
to nit pick a little bit here, technically pasting the definition of safety probably wouldn’t help, considering that it’s describing physical safety, and we’re generally talking about felt safety here.
yeah targeting an audience here will help a lot with that, problem here is that i’m not sure what audience we’re supposed to be targeting? because last i checked it was all of men, or at the very least, the ones that rape women. That seems like a pretty broad audience to me, so i feel like if that’s the intended target it should probably be more self contained in that respect. Then again this might also be lemmy specific? But even then i’m not really sure how significant that would be. With really short statements intended to make a point you often tend to run into the issue of reach, how do you most effectively reach people, while still functionally explaining the situation at hand. It’s why public speaking is a literal career.
yeah the meme in this post is pretty good. The previous threads? Eh, i would describe those as more of a shitshow, than anything else. This really seemed like the tumblrcon of lemmy to me more than anything. Or maybe the most recent CPAC of lemmy? That was a weird conference…
yeah and in a sense i suppose that’s kind of my problem with it, i didn’t like the original statement because it didn’t do a very good job articulating the point it was supposed to articulate, and i liked this one, because it did a pretty solid job of it, and then people immediately proceeded to remove two words from it in order to make it much worse, for some reason.
Wouldn’t be the internet otherwise i suppose.