Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! A recent story at Jalopnik tells us the story of a Subaru driver who got in trouble for going on the wrong trail. Why? Because the National Park Service only allows four-wheel-drive vehicles on ... [continued]
That’s not true though. There are plenty of AWD vehicles that can swap between driving all of driving two. And there are plenty of examples of 4wd vehicles that drive all 4 full time. The humvee is a perfect example of a full time 4wd. It cannot switch to 2wd unless you remove a driveline. What it does have is a 2 speed transfer case that allows switching from 4 hi to 4 lo.
I’d love to see something other than you just saying no to back up your argument. Because just repeating wrong information doesn’t make you any more right. I didn’t even have to really look hard for sources that mention a transfer case as a key component of a 4wd system. And I’d say all of these folks probably know more than you.
Oh, and on top of that, in the rules that this whole thread is about, they specifically mention the transfer case as the requirement for a system to be 4wd.
After researching it a bit, there doesn’t appear to be a definitive answer. None of the links you provided give one either.
Some claim AWD has a center diff. Some say it’s the manual vs. automatic control of drive wheels and diffs. Some say low range makes it 4WD. What some people/companies call a “center diff” could ALSO be considered a transfer case.
in the rules that this whole thread is about, they specifically mention the transfer case as the requirement for a system to be 4wd.
That article has zero cited rules, or really any citations whatsoever, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
Only thing I can say for certain is that the article claims 4WD = locking diffs, which is obviously not true.
In summary, I’m wrong but so are you so nanananabooboo
What is the difference between a 4x4 and All Wheel Drive (AWD) vehicle?
True 4x4 vehicles have a ‘transfer case’ in the drivetrain that puts full engine power to the front wheels. All Wheel Drive, common on vehicles like crossover SUVs, relies on a ‘differential’ to send variable power to each wheel. AWD is good on level roadbeds in low traction conditions like snow. It is not designed to fully power the front tires in off-pavement rugged situations. For example, if the road goes up a steep hill and there is a lot of loose rock in the road, fully powered front wheels are needed to rotate strongly and pull the vehicle up the slope. AWD cannot do that very well and may fail.
This is the opposite of true. 4WD absolutely does not and cannot send all engine power to the front wheels and a AWD with center diff potentially can but probably wont. However they often do send a disproportionate amount of power to the front wheels, as necessary.
There is an answer and it’s the one I already gave. There are always edge cases and exceptions because there are an absurd number of variations and vehicles types. By and large I already gave the deciding definition, and it is in what I linked as well as many others places.
Edmunds - “Traditional 4WD systems have a two-speed transfer case with high- and low-range modes that can be selected by the driver, either with an electronic switch or a mechanical lever.”
CARMAX - “Key to how a 4x4 works is a piece of equipment called a transfer case. This connects the vehicle’s front and rear wheels, splitting the engine’s power evenly between them and making both axles turn at the same speed.”
And the article didn’t list the rules because it was wrong about everything. The rules are listed by the National Park Sevice. “A four wheel drive vehicle is defined as a sport utility vehicle (SUV) or truck with at least 15-inch tire rims and at least eight inches of clearance from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential to the ground. Four wheel drive vehicles have a transfer case between the front and rear axles that locks the front and rear drive shafts together when four wheel drive is engaged. All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles do not meet this definition.”
So again, repeating yourself doesn’t make you more right. It does however increasingly make you look like an ignorant ass that has no desire to actually learn anything.
By and large I already gave the deciding definition
As I said, you gave one of many that don’t appear to have a common consensus or any authoritative source.
Edmunds - “Traditional 4WD systems
“Traditional” is the keyword there. Lots of AWD systems are driver-selectable.
Key to how a 4x4 works is a piece of equipment called a transfer case. This connects the vehicle’s front and rear wheels, splitting the engine’s power evenly between them and making both axles turn at the same speed.”
The center diff does the same thing, which is why I said earlier that it could be considered a “transfer case”, obviously with the addition of a differential.
And the article didn’t list the rules because it was wrong about everything.
Great, so we agree on that.
The rules are listed by the National Park Sevice
I edited my comment to include the NPS’ definition and explained how and why it’s incorrect.
Repeating yourself doesn’t make you more right. It does however increasingly make you look like an ignorant ass that has no desire to actually learn anything.
If you think a center differential does at all the same job as a transfer case then you definitely need to do a lot more reading. They are entirely different components with completely different roles in a vehicle. There are AWD systems that can selectable, that doesn’t make them 4WD. And you still haven’t sourced anything. You just keep saying I’m wrong. So if I’m wrong then provide some actual evidence.
If you think a center differential does at all the same job as a transfer case then you definitely need to do a lot more reading.
The only thing I’m reading is the statement you provided, which has no differentiation.
I have been studying and building transfer cases and center diffs since before you were born, I know what I’m talking about.
There are AWD systems that can selectable, that doesn’t make them 4WD.
Yes, that was my point, thank you.
And you still haven’t sourced anything. You just keep saying I’m wrong.
That’s not what’s happening. I said we’re both wrong, and explained in great detail exactly how and why. What kind of source are you looking for that will explain that it has no definitive answer? All of your sources are my source.
You’ve been studying and building transfer cases and differentials for decades? Are you just running down the list of shitty internet troll tropes?
I was responding on this thread for people who wanted answers about something they didn’t understand. Not to argue with someone who just wants to argue.
That’s not true though. There are plenty of AWD vehicles that can swap between driving all of driving two. And there are plenty of examples of 4wd vehicles that drive all 4 full time. The humvee is a perfect example of a full time 4wd. It cannot switch to 2wd unless you remove a driveline. What it does have is a 2 speed transfer case that allows switching from 4 hi to 4 lo.
That’s not true though.
I’d love to see something other than you just saying no to back up your argument. Because just repeating wrong information doesn’t make you any more right. I didn’t even have to really look hard for sources that mention a transfer case as a key component of a 4wd system. And I’d say all of these folks probably know more than you.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/awd-vs-4wd-whats-the-difference-and-which-to-choose.html
https://www.carmax.com/articles/awd-vs-4wd-which-to-choose
https://www.motortrend.com/features/4wd-vs-awd/
Oh, and on top of that, in the rules that this whole thread is about, they specifically mention the transfer case as the requirement for a system to be 4wd.
After researching it a bit, there doesn’t appear to be a definitive answer. None of the links you provided give one either.
Some claim AWD has a center diff. Some say it’s the manual vs. automatic control of drive wheels and diffs. Some say low range makes it 4WD. What some people/companies call a “center diff” could ALSO be considered a transfer case.
That article has zero cited rules, or really any citations whatsoever, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
Only thing I can say for certain is that the article claims 4WD = locking diffs, which is obviously not true.
In summary, I’m wrong but so are you so nanananabooboo
Edit: I was able to find this definition from NPS
This is the opposite of true. 4WD absolutely does not and cannot send all engine power to the front wheels and a AWD with center diff potentially can but probably wont. However they often do send a disproportionate amount of power to the front wheels, as necessary.
There is an answer and it’s the one I already gave. There are always edge cases and exceptions because there are an absurd number of variations and vehicles types. By and large I already gave the deciding definition, and it is in what I linked as well as many others places.
Edmunds - “Traditional 4WD systems have a two-speed transfer case with high- and low-range modes that can be selected by the driver, either with an electronic switch or a mechanical lever.”
CARMAX - “Key to how a 4x4 works is a piece of equipment called a transfer case. This connects the vehicle’s front and rear wheels, splitting the engine’s power evenly between them and making both axles turn at the same speed.”
And the article didn’t list the rules because it was wrong about everything. The rules are listed by the National Park Sevice. “A four wheel drive vehicle is defined as a sport utility vehicle (SUV) or truck with at least 15-inch tire rims and at least eight inches of clearance from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential to the ground. Four wheel drive vehicles have a transfer case between the front and rear axles that locks the front and rear drive shafts together when four wheel drive is engaged. All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles do not meet this definition.”
So again, repeating yourself doesn’t make you more right. It does however increasingly make you look like an ignorant ass that has no desire to actually learn anything.
As I said, you gave one of many that don’t appear to have a common consensus or any authoritative source.
“Traditional” is the keyword there. Lots of AWD systems are driver-selectable.
The center diff does the same thing, which is why I said earlier that it could be considered a “transfer case”, obviously with the addition of a differential.
Great, so we agree on that.
I edited my comment to include the NPS’ definition and explained how and why it’s incorrect.
Repeating yourself doesn’t make you more right. It does however increasingly make you look like an ignorant ass that has no desire to actually learn anything.
If you think a center differential does at all the same job as a transfer case then you definitely need to do a lot more reading. They are entirely different components with completely different roles in a vehicle. There are AWD systems that can selectable, that doesn’t make them 4WD. And you still haven’t sourced anything. You just keep saying I’m wrong. So if I’m wrong then provide some actual evidence.
The only thing I’m reading is the statement you provided, which has no differentiation.
I have been studying and building transfer cases and center diffs since before you were born, I know what I’m talking about.
Yes, that was my point, thank you.
That’s not what’s happening. I said we’re both wrong, and explained in great detail exactly how and why. What kind of source are you looking for that will explain that it has no definitive answer? All of your sources are my source.
You’ve been studying and building transfer cases and differentials for decades? Are you just running down the list of shitty internet troll tropes?
I was responding on this thread for people who wanted answers about something they didn’t understand. Not to argue with someone who just wants to argue.