You want to deprive citizens of their constitutionally protected rights because you disagree with them, because you’ve defined them “enemies of the state”. You’re a nationalist fascist.
I think I can say that I am living in germany, currently a country not under the government of national fascists, that has a law against so called “Volksverhetzung” which has been introduced quite literally to prevent some speech of the nationalist fascists, to prevent them from spreading their hateful ideology. Maybe you wanna think about that for awhile.
This isn’t about ideas it is about calling for violence towards people. This isn’t how you get Nazis this is the “you already have Nazis and need to do something about it”
Also, funnily enough, the proletariat or what’s left of it, are the ones currently flocking to the right-wing extremist party here in Germany.
Nah bruv, as an american, the people are too dumb to not need some sort of protection from hate speech and ideas. A fact checker needs to be a mandatory public service at this point. I feel the same way about the homeless bum who shouts at everyone downtown that their participation in consummerism is destroying everything. If they called for violence, it would be a step too far.
If the people are too dumb to be trusted with an unrestricted marketplace of ideas, the they’re too dumb to be allowed to vote for their own government.
If you believe in democracy, you have to also believe that the majority of people can be trusted with the information necessary to make informed political choices.
If the people can’t be trusted to act in their best interests in an informed manner, then we might as well just adopt Plato’s philosopher-kings system instead, and make all of the peoples’ decisions for them.
This is why the GOP has been working hard for decades to destroy public education in the US. They want to make sure that only the rich are educated because the uneducated can be easily tricked into voting against their own interests. Unfortunately it’s working.
It’s mandatory in a functioning democracy for the public to be educated and well informed or it doesn’t work. Unfortunately it’s highly debatable whether the US still qualifies as educated, and the likes of Fox News and Sinclair are hard at work destroying the informed part.
All that said the ease with which misinformation spreads these days does need some kind of counter, otherwise we open ourselves up to Soviet style disinformation campaigns where the goal isn’t so much to drive a particular narrative as it is to sow confusion and make people distrust all information. They drown the signal in noise, so everyone just makes decisions based on their gut instead of facts. Social media has given a false equivalence where any random person on Facebook is treated as just as reliable a source of news and information as actual reporters are. This is incredibly dangerous.
I have a question for you. Do you think advertising works not just as an informative medium but as a manipulative medium as well? Do people have free will while shopping or are they completely following whatever ad is in front of their faces? Or is it maybe a middle ground between the two extremes that’s actually the truth?
Very interesting “democracy or philosipher-king” point, though maybe another option in between is possible. I believe it is people’s responisibility to self govern and that noone has the right to take that away. I don’t want people to be told what to think, but I also don’t trust them in our current system. I’m saying we need an apolitical tool for flagging lies to help people not accept everything that fits their current worldview.
Also, on your point later in the comment chain, I firmly believe elected officials should be suspended and imprisoned if they call for violence and then someone else performs that violence. Rhetoric has power and using that irresponsibly shouldn’t go unpunished. Majority rule with respect to the minority is my most important principle.
Controlling media and having a fact-checker pop up are two different things. Let people spout their nonsense, but flag sources of misinformation as unreliable.
They already have thought about it - see the part where they’re glad our rights aren’t curtailed just because someone might say some words that hurt your feelings.
Germany can take their nanny state bullshit and fuck right off.
You go tell that to the entire generation that had to fight and die to free us of the Nazi plague. Nazis have no place in this country and are an enemy to everything we stand for. There is Zero reason we should allow them any space to speak or live with us.
They do not apply to enemies of the state like the Taliban, ISIS or Nazis.
You want to deprive citizens of their constitutionally protected rights because you disagree with them, because you’ve defined them “enemies of the state”. You’re a nationalist fascist.
Good luck with that.
At some point speech becomes hate speech that actually hurts people. In Germany there are laws against that, I’m sure the US has too.
Fortunately, feelings aren’t protected in the US. Hate speech can only be used to show intent in the commission of an actual crime.
Should’ve used the “fire in a theater” example with stochastic terrorism from a position of authority.
Why is it I need make your argument for you? Think about that one for awhile.
How about the example of someone saying black immigrants are eating dogs in a debate carried by all networks and live on multiple streaming platforms?
I think I can say that I am living in germany, currently a country not under the government of national fascists, that has a law against so called “Volksverhetzung” which has been introduced quite literally to prevent some speech of the nationalist fascists, to prevent them from spreading their hateful ideology. Maybe you wanna think about that for awhile.
The prolitariat doesn’t need the protection of governance from ideas. That’s how we get Nazis. Study your history.
This isn’t about ideas it is about calling for violence towards people. This isn’t how you get Nazis this is the “you already have Nazis and need to do something about it”
Also, funnily enough, the proletariat or what’s left of it, are the ones currently flocking to the right-wing extremist party here in Germany.
Nah bruv, as an american, the people are too dumb to not need some sort of protection from hate speech and ideas. A fact checker needs to be a mandatory public service at this point. I feel the same way about the homeless bum who shouts at everyone downtown that their participation in consummerism is destroying everything. If they called for violence, it would be a step too far.
If the people are too dumb to be trusted with an unrestricted marketplace of ideas, the they’re too dumb to be allowed to vote for their own government.
If you believe in democracy, you have to also believe that the majority of people can be trusted with the information necessary to make informed political choices.
If the people can’t be trusted to act in their best interests in an informed manner, then we might as well just adopt Plato’s philosopher-kings system instead, and make all of the peoples’ decisions for them.
This is why the GOP has been working hard for decades to destroy public education in the US. They want to make sure that only the rich are educated because the uneducated can be easily tricked into voting against their own interests. Unfortunately it’s working.
It’s mandatory in a functioning democracy for the public to be educated and well informed or it doesn’t work. Unfortunately it’s highly debatable whether the US still qualifies as educated, and the likes of Fox News and Sinclair are hard at work destroying the informed part.
All that said the ease with which misinformation spreads these days does need some kind of counter, otherwise we open ourselves up to Soviet style disinformation campaigns where the goal isn’t so much to drive a particular narrative as it is to sow confusion and make people distrust all information. They drown the signal in noise, so everyone just makes decisions based on their gut instead of facts. Social media has given a false equivalence where any random person on Facebook is treated as just as reliable a source of news and information as actual reporters are. This is incredibly dangerous.
I have a question for you. Do you think advertising works not just as an informative medium but as a manipulative medium as well? Do people have free will while shopping or are they completely following whatever ad is in front of their faces? Or is it maybe a middle ground between the two extremes that’s actually the truth?
Very interesting “democracy or philosipher-king” point, though maybe another option in between is possible. I believe it is people’s responisibility to self govern and that noone has the right to take that away. I don’t want people to be told what to think, but I also don’t trust them in our current system. I’m saying we need an apolitical tool for flagging lies to help people not accept everything that fits their current worldview. Also, on your point later in the comment chain, I firmly believe elected officials should be suspended and imprisoned if they call for violence and then someone else performs that violence. Rhetoric has power and using that irresponsibly shouldn’t go unpunished. Majority rule with respect to the minority is my most important principle.
And, that’s exactly how we got so dumb.
Check out The Manufacturing of Consent. Or, if lighter reading is your thing, 1984.
Controlling media and having a fact-checker pop up are two different things. Let people spout their nonsense, but flag sources of misinformation as unreliable.
They already have thought about it - see the part where they’re glad our rights aren’t curtailed just because someone might say some words that hurt your feelings.
Germany can take their nanny state bullshit and fuck right off.
That’s an opinion one can have, but it’s different from calling everyone that might want a more restrictive policy a nationalist fascist
You go tell that to the entire generation that had to fight and die to free us of the Nazi plague. Nazis have no place in this country and are an enemy to everything we stand for. There is Zero reason we should allow them any space to speak or live with us.