These people say they care about Gaza, but we all know deep down inside they couldn’t give less of a fuck.

It’s more important virtue signal than to sincerely hold those values, this is the democrat way.

https://lemmy.ml/post/20384005

  • ashaman2007
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    2 months ago

    OK, I watched the video. You asked me to humble myself and engage with your point of view. I did. Hopefully you can do the same with mine.

    1. I don’t expect reforms of liberal democracy will bring us toward a democratic ideal. They are temporary harm reduction.
    2. yes I agree the US is a class dictatorship. How does one start to break that in the short term? Labor organization. Which I am fully in support of. Long term? I don’t pretend to know, but at least if we are organized as a labor force maybe we can start to see a path through.
    3. I’m not unaware that my vote is not always effective depending on which policies the capital holding class supports. However in my over a decade of voting I have also seen GOOD regulations pass despite corporate interests and capital investment in lobbying. So no, voting is not PURELY to pacify my guilt at being a citizen of the evil empire. I vote for what I believe in and if it reduces harm that’s great. If not, that’s OK, voting is not preventing anybody from doing more to oppose shit policies.
    4. One oversimplification in this video is that it implies any and all leaders in a liberal democracy are always going to do the same level of violence when repressing civil disobedience. You can look at the civil rights movement to see how there were key differences in how the movement was able to develop in the south (where segregation was law) and in the north, where it was not. https://academic-oup-com.proxy.library.nyu.edu/book/45643/chapter/396344580 (link to full text of this chapter: https://file.io/xsfTsCUAIfFE) The point is, that if I have a choice between Harris and Trump, I’m going to pick the one least likely to call in the National Guard to the protest…and if I don’t show up to vote, I didn’t even try to do that. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-barr-used-loophole-deploy-national-guard-u-s-cities-ncna1236034
    5. As was suggested elsewhere in this thread, apparently the only way to create a just society is through “revolution”. Of course, nobody cares to define what that looks like. Why? Because it is an absolutely enormous task, and one that you could (probably rightfully) debate for years in order to try to do it “the right way” and avoid an utter disaster (a shooting civil war). Part of the issue is that currently, millions are dependent on the systems in our liberal democracy. From healthcare to food, there is a massive void that must be filled before just the masses can just say “I don’t recognize this govt as legitimate”. Time and time again I hear anarchists online repeat “we just need a revolution”, and apparently this understanding makes them better than me despite the complete and total lack of any coherent path to the endgame besides “fuck some shit up”. Given the amount of failed revolutions strewn throughout history (and the death and destruction they left in their wake), I would suggest that people stop throwing out that word as if it means something specific.
    • miz [any, any]@hexbear.net
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      2 months ago

      Hopefully you can do the same with mine.

      literally every time I look at a bourgeois newspaper or mass media broadcast where they spout the exact same class-obfuscatory excuses for the orphan-grinding machine. the exact same arguments liberals have been making (and history has continually proven wrong) since the 19th century

      • ashaman2007
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        2 months ago

        OK cool now you are arguing in bad faith. Nothing in my response was an attempt to hide the class conflict inherent in liberal democracy.