"Cutting water, cutting electricity, cutting food to a mass of civilian people is against international law," said EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell in Muscat.
If you want to blame anyone for that you can blame the brits for promising to establish a jewish state in Palestine and not really listening to the people living there.
Well yeah, but the Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration to the Palestinians for that fact. Its not the fault of Palestinians no matter which way you cut it, and Britain isn’t in control of Israel. The Israeli state acts on its own behalf.
To my knowledge Israelis were accepting of the UN Palestine Partition plan, the Arab league (alongside Palestinians) completely rejected the idea and threatened to exterminate all jews if the plan is enacted. So the idea that Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration just isn’t factual.
Now the subsequent expansions by Israel and their treatment of Gaza, that I agree is fully on Israel.
The arab league is still not Palestinians. Why is it whenever a group of Palestinians does anything you transplant their actions onto all Palestinians? Are all Americans responsible and complicit in the actions of the republican party?
And Israel and America have both repeatedly compromised negotiations with Palestine. In the mid 90s things were as close as they ever have been to a reasonable future for both Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu himself was involved in those negotiations and entirely sabotaged them. Netanyahu, the man who directly controls the IDF is open racist and genocidal towards Palestinians. And the IDF could genocide them, thats a thing they reasonably have the ability to do.
As always the actions and statements of extremist groups within Palestine are taken by western commentators to be indicative of all Palestinian people. None of us are defending extremist groups, so I don’t know what exactly the point of condemning them in this discussion is.
The problem is that Israel is enacting collective punishment onto all Palestinians. The entire world should be universally condemning this vile slaughter of innocent lives. They’re openly calling Palestinians animals and saying they’re going to raze the mass ghettos they’re forced to live in. It is unacceptable. It is disgusting.
I feel like you just refuse to have nuance and the only thing you’re willing to agree with is if I say “Israel bad”. And I don’t have an issue saying that. Modern day Israel is bad. Their actions should be scrutinized. But that’s not at all what I’m talking about. I’m simply pointing to history and saying that Palestine is not some harmless victim and Israel is not some inherently evil entity.
Because Palestine isnt a thing. Palestinians are members of an ethnic group related to a state that hasnt existed in 80 years like theyre not a state. Theyre just people. To say “Palestine is _______” or “Palestine said/did/supported” is wrong, there is no monolithic entity that can be referred to as palestine. There is no state of Palestine. There is the state of Israel, and Palestinians live within it.
It’d be like trying to characterize the entirety of african americans as some kind of unified group that takes united actions and makes united statements. There is no such thing. Palestinians are civilians. They havent done or said anything collectively. There are many Palestinians who have always openly denounced the actions of extremist groups.
Israel is a state on the other hand. A state governed by an openly fascist dictator. Israel can do things, like write laws and take military action. There is a military of Israel, there is a police force of Israel. Palestine has neither of those things. It would, again, be like trying to characterize native americans as some kind of state and be like “Native America isn’t innocent” like that doesnt make any sense.
If you said “Hamas isnt innocent” id agree with you. They are a group that has shared responsibility for actions taken in their name, and a responsibility to denounce atrocities committed by their members. But not Palestinians. They are not Hamas. Hamas is Hamas. Members of Hamas may be Palestinian themselves, but Palestinians are not Hamas.
It is exactly the kind of rhetoric that is being used to justify the “self defense” of Israel against the “human animals” of Palestine.
If you want to blame anyone for that you can blame the brits for promising to establish a jewish state in Palestine and not really listening to the people living there.
Well yeah, but the Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration to the Palestinians for that fact. Its not the fault of Palestinians no matter which way you cut it, and Britain isn’t in control of Israel. The Israeli state acts on its own behalf.
To my knowledge Israelis were accepting of the UN Palestine Partition plan, the Arab league (alongside Palestinians) completely rejected the idea and threatened to exterminate all jews if the plan is enacted. So the idea that Israelis have given exactly 0 consideration just isn’t factual.
Now the subsequent expansions by Israel and their treatment of Gaza, that I agree is fully on Israel.
The arab league is still not Palestinians. Why is it whenever a group of Palestinians does anything you transplant their actions onto all Palestinians? Are all Americans responsible and complicit in the actions of the republican party?
And Israel and America have both repeatedly compromised negotiations with Palestine. In the mid 90s things were as close as they ever have been to a reasonable future for both Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu himself was involved in those negotiations and entirely sabotaged them. Netanyahu, the man who directly controls the IDF is open racist and genocidal towards Palestinians. And the IDF could genocide them, thats a thing they reasonably have the ability to do.
As always the actions and statements of extremist groups within Palestine are taken by western commentators to be indicative of all Palestinian people. None of us are defending extremist groups, so I don’t know what exactly the point of condemning them in this discussion is.
The problem is that Israel is enacting collective punishment onto all Palestinians. The entire world should be universally condemning this vile slaughter of innocent lives. They’re openly calling Palestinians animals and saying they’re going to raze the mass ghettos they’re forced to live in. It is unacceptable. It is disgusting.
I feel like you just refuse to have nuance and the only thing you’re willing to agree with is if I say “Israel bad”. And I don’t have an issue saying that. Modern day Israel is bad. Their actions should be scrutinized. But that’s not at all what I’m talking about. I’m simply pointing to history and saying that Palestine is not some harmless victim and Israel is not some inherently evil entity.
Because Palestine isnt a thing. Palestinians are members of an ethnic group related to a state that hasnt existed in 80 years like theyre not a state. Theyre just people. To say “Palestine is _______” or “Palestine said/did/supported” is wrong, there is no monolithic entity that can be referred to as palestine. There is no state of Palestine. There is the state of Israel, and Palestinians live within it.
It’d be like trying to characterize the entirety of african americans as some kind of unified group that takes united actions and makes united statements. There is no such thing. Palestinians are civilians. They havent done or said anything collectively. There are many Palestinians who have always openly denounced the actions of extremist groups.
Israel is a state on the other hand. A state governed by an openly fascist dictator. Israel can do things, like write laws and take military action. There is a military of Israel, there is a police force of Israel. Palestine has neither of those things. It would, again, be like trying to characterize native americans as some kind of state and be like “Native America isn’t innocent” like that doesnt make any sense.
If you said “Hamas isnt innocent” id agree with you. They are a group that has shared responsibility for actions taken in their name, and a responsibility to denounce atrocities committed by their members. But not Palestinians. They are not Hamas. Hamas is Hamas. Members of Hamas may be Palestinian themselves, but Palestinians are not Hamas.
It is exactly the kind of rhetoric that is being used to justify the “self defense” of Israel against the “human animals” of Palestine.