And that’s fine. But why assume all media has to be for you? These are comic films from a comic company; if you weren’t ever into comic books why assume you’d be into these?
Because historically they’ve been for audiences like me, and now that they’re not, they’re wondering where everyone went. I assumed I’d enjoy these because I’ve enjoyed previous marvel movies, but I can’t name a single (marvel) movie since NWH that I’ve enjoyed. It’s been a massive shift in their movies that can’t be ignored.
They weren’t originally this comic book like up until just before endgame (coincidentally when everyone started to think the quality of the content is trending down)
No, they were, it’s just that by the time people got on board we were past the issue cycle and were onto the event cycle, so people got used to the incline and expected that that was going to be how these went: endless incline in excitement. But that was all the Infinity War lead up and climax. Now we’re in the lull leading into the next build-up cycle. We’re back at the Thor through Guardians 1 stage of the cycle, basically.
Going back to watch any of the Phase 1 movies is such a better experience than any of the Phase 4 or Phase 5 movies. There doesn’t need to be endless excitement, there just needs to be decent writing, and that’s missing from anything new. Nobody cares about any of the new characters.
There’s never been a huge number of flops from marvel with people losing more and more interest in watching them. There’s no clear plan forward, as their planned “Thanos” scale villain has been in hot water irl and will likely not be able to continue to play the character.
I can’t speak to anyone else’s experience, but I personally care about the MCU Shang-Chi, Kate Bishop, Yelena, Monica, Kamala, Moon Knight, hell I even care about Stature (Ant-Man’s daughter) a little bit.
As to the “plan forward,” I dunno man, it seems weird to borrow worry by letting speculative futures impact your opinion on and enjoyment of what’s in front of you. Maybe it’s not for you, that’s okay, but it you think it could be for you, I would suggest maybe trying to focus on what’s on the screen rather than caring about what’s happening behind the screen so much.
I’m not a business analyst; I’m not in the speculating market. I’m a media consumer, so I’m going to choose to judge them on their output, not any of the factors surrounding it or the discourse about it. For me, ignoring all the outside noise, I can only think of about 3 MCU-related properties that I watched and did not enjoy myself while watching. That’s all I’m looking for out of this relationship, so as far as I’m concerned they’re still doing right by me.
That’s where we differ. I couldnt care less for pretty much any of those characters. Maybe it’s because I’m not the target demographic, but absolutely none of them connected at all with me, they were often just another marvel protagonist who follows the exact same story as all the other ones. That worked in Phase 1, it won’t work now that it’s played out.
Even as far back as Iron Man there was a plan forward. They had some idea of where everything was going, even if the viewers didn’t see it. Currently it looks like they have no ultimate endgame and don’t have any idea what’s happening next.
The on-screen product has been terrible. All of the D+ Shows have been downright horrid and I’ve given up on trying to force myself to watch them to keep up. MoM had me leaving the theater genuinely angry at how bad they fucked up all the characters.
I can’t name a single marvel property that’s landed well since NWH, and NWH was heavily carried by nostalgia. Ant-Man was some spy kids level of terrible, MoM completely ruined a ton of character development, black widow was just bad, and the list keeps going on. There is clearly some larger issues because I know it’s not just myself who feels this way about the current phase.
I’m no longer enjoying the content because of the poor writing and extremely shallow characters. And it may be that those elements were present in the original marvel films, but the tropes have been played out so much that they’re predictable.
Superhero fatigue may not be a thing (The Boys/Batman have been great), but there sure is Marvel fatigue
Don’t know what to tell you friend, my opinion is nearly entirely opposite yours. But I’m not trying to convince you to like Marvel, as I’ve hinted at before, if comics weren’t for you why assume comic movies would be? I was only trying to answer dangblingus’s question “Who is actually going to all of these Marvel movies?” Me, I am.
I’ve been entertained by all of the Disney+ series, with perhaps the exception of Secret Invasion which was pretty rough and superfluous.
I don’t see how any of the characters were fucked up in MoM personally.
NWH is easily one of my least favorite MCU properties as I think it’s an empty film with nothing but fanservice to offer, but even I will concede it has a couple moments that are so good they almost redeem and justify the whole film, so I still like it well enough to not call it “bad.”
Ant-Man wasn’t great, I’ll agree there, but Ant-Man has always been the “family” property in the Marvel deck. Yes, I know these are all “family” films to some degree, but Ant-Man has always been the only active father in the MCU, his films have been the only ones to actively involve a child, and his films have been the ones most filled with goofy gags and humor. So complaining that Ant-Man felt like Spy Kids is a big silly to me, because the Ant-Man series is very much trying to capture a similar segment that the Spy Kids films were.
I thought Black Widow was definitely unnecessary in the “how does this fit into the greater picture” sense, but otherwise was great, and again is very comic book in the sense that sometimes they just publish side origin stories mostly out of continuity. Your complaints about lacking depth feel especially hollow here, as I think Black Widow genuinely focused on adding depth to Natasha (and succeeded) while introducing Yelena in a way that made her feel full, developed, and three-dimensional.
So I’m not sure what you want from these films, but I think they may just not be for you. It’s cool you dipped your toe in the water and had fun with them for awhile, but that doesn’t mean you or anyone else was wronged just because you decided the room wasn’t for you after all. 🤷♂️
And that’s fine. But why assume all media has to be for you? These are comic films from a comic company; if you weren’t ever into comic books why assume you’d be into these?
Because historically they’ve been for audiences like me, and now that they’re not, they’re wondering where everyone went. I assumed I’d enjoy these because I’ve enjoyed previous marvel movies, but I can’t name a single (marvel) movie since NWH that I’ve enjoyed. It’s been a massive shift in their movies that can’t be ignored.
They weren’t originally this comic book like up until just before endgame (coincidentally when everyone started to think the quality of the content is trending down)
No, they were, it’s just that by the time people got on board we were past the issue cycle and were onto the event cycle, so people got used to the incline and expected that that was going to be how these went: endless incline in excitement. But that was all the Infinity War lead up and climax. Now we’re in the lull leading into the next build-up cycle. We’re back at the Thor through Guardians 1 stage of the cycle, basically.
I really don’t think that’s the case.
Going back to watch any of the Phase 1 movies is such a better experience than any of the Phase 4 or Phase 5 movies. There doesn’t need to be endless excitement, there just needs to be decent writing, and that’s missing from anything new. Nobody cares about any of the new characters.
There’s never been a huge number of flops from marvel with people losing more and more interest in watching them. There’s no clear plan forward, as their planned “Thanos” scale villain has been in hot water irl and will likely not be able to continue to play the character.
I can’t speak to anyone else’s experience, but I personally care about the MCU Shang-Chi, Kate Bishop, Yelena, Monica, Kamala, Moon Knight, hell I even care about Stature (Ant-Man’s daughter) a little bit.
As to the “plan forward,” I dunno man, it seems weird to borrow worry by letting speculative futures impact your opinion on and enjoyment of what’s in front of you. Maybe it’s not for you, that’s okay, but it you think it could be for you, I would suggest maybe trying to focus on what’s on the screen rather than caring about what’s happening behind the screen so much.
I’m not a business analyst; I’m not in the speculating market. I’m a media consumer, so I’m going to choose to judge them on their output, not any of the factors surrounding it or the discourse about it. For me, ignoring all the outside noise, I can only think of about 3 MCU-related properties that I watched and did not enjoy myself while watching. That’s all I’m looking for out of this relationship, so as far as I’m concerned they’re still doing right by me.
That’s where we differ. I couldnt care less for pretty much any of those characters. Maybe it’s because I’m not the target demographic, but absolutely none of them connected at all with me, they were often just another marvel protagonist who follows the exact same story as all the other ones. That worked in Phase 1, it won’t work now that it’s played out.
Even as far back as Iron Man there was a plan forward. They had some idea of where everything was going, even if the viewers didn’t see it. Currently it looks like they have no ultimate endgame and don’t have any idea what’s happening next.
The on-screen product has been terrible. All of the D+ Shows have been downright horrid and I’ve given up on trying to force myself to watch them to keep up. MoM had me leaving the theater genuinely angry at how bad they fucked up all the characters.
I can’t name a single marvel property that’s landed well since NWH, and NWH was heavily carried by nostalgia. Ant-Man was some spy kids level of terrible, MoM completely ruined a ton of character development, black widow was just bad, and the list keeps going on. There is clearly some larger issues because I know it’s not just myself who feels this way about the current phase.
I’m no longer enjoying the content because of the poor writing and extremely shallow characters. And it may be that those elements were present in the original marvel films, but the tropes have been played out so much that they’re predictable.
Superhero fatigue may not be a thing (The Boys/Batman have been great), but there sure is Marvel fatigue
Don’t know what to tell you friend, my opinion is nearly entirely opposite yours. But I’m not trying to convince you to like Marvel, as I’ve hinted at before, if comics weren’t for you why assume comic movies would be? I was only trying to answer dangblingus’s question “Who is actually going to all of these Marvel movies?” Me, I am.
I’ve been entertained by all of the Disney+ series, with perhaps the exception of Secret Invasion which was pretty rough and superfluous.
I don’t see how any of the characters were fucked up in MoM personally.
NWH is easily one of my least favorite MCU properties as I think it’s an empty film with nothing but fanservice to offer, but even I will concede it has a couple moments that are so good they almost redeem and justify the whole film, so I still like it well enough to not call it “bad.”
Ant-Man wasn’t great, I’ll agree there, but Ant-Man has always been the “family” property in the Marvel deck. Yes, I know these are all “family” films to some degree, but Ant-Man has always been the only active father in the MCU, his films have been the only ones to actively involve a child, and his films have been the ones most filled with goofy gags and humor. So complaining that Ant-Man felt like Spy Kids is a big silly to me, because the Ant-Man series is very much trying to capture a similar segment that the Spy Kids films were.
I thought Black Widow was definitely unnecessary in the “how does this fit into the greater picture” sense, but otherwise was great, and again is very comic book in the sense that sometimes they just publish side origin stories mostly out of continuity. Your complaints about lacking depth feel especially hollow here, as I think Black Widow genuinely focused on adding depth to Natasha (and succeeded) while introducing Yelena in a way that made her feel full, developed, and three-dimensional.
So I’m not sure what you want from these films, but I think they may just not be for you. It’s cool you dipped your toe in the water and had fun with them for awhile, but that doesn’t mean you or anyone else was wronged just because you decided the room wasn’t for you after all. 🤷♂️