Biden will probably win some and lose some no matter what stance he takes on this issue. He might lose some pro-palestinian voters but gain some pro-israel moderates.
Still, I don’t think many pro-palestinian voters will move away from Democrats because there’s nowhere else to go except to not vote, which I guess some may choose.
With young voter turnout already so low, and the way Gen Z is killing it with anti war TikToks… Its a fucking death knell. The youth need to turn out, and this type of rhetoric is not going to help do that.
No one who wants Trump will change their minds to Biden, there is no point in even trying for their votes. The youth vote, the Muslim vote, the African American vote are needed to win and nothing turns off those three groups like supporting the crushing of a powerless group by a larger technologically superior force supported by your tax dollars.
It’s not going to crumble, the fact that you think voting for him will do that, means you have fallen for propaganda, it’s going to stay pretty much the same, but just with worse civil liberties, and an emboldened fascist religious crowd, which funny enough are more docile to the government.
Oh, corruption is going to thrive under Trump. Did you not notice that last time around? Did you not notice the fake charities, the tax payer money funneled into Mar-a-Lago, the hundreds of millions going to Trump PACs, the money going to the Trump hotel in Washington DC, all the corruption and bribes and schemes?
And the fun thing is that now that Trump knows how to do all of this, how to funnel millions into his own pocket, a second Trump presidency is going to be corruption on steroids.
The only thing that’s going to crumble are democratic norms and human rights in the United States.
“He might lose some pro-palestinian voters but gain some pro-israel moderates”
This is the main problem with the democratic party. They are always tryign to please the far-right, but they are unwilling to compromise with the far-left
I don’t disagree but I think the real problem is that this is how it has to be. We’ve pretty much completely lost the GOP government subversion scheme across all branches and levels. Forget foreign policy, we can’t even get people healthcare and homes. Because these terrorists have taken over our government. How are we going to get the nice things when we’re struggling to get our oxygen mask on?
If you’re concerned about this, get out and vote in ALL local elections, tell your coworkers about local elections, inform them about mail in and absentee voting.
I vote from my kitchen table and get confirmation that my vote was counted. You could too, if it’s not currently accessible to you, complain about it, talk to local news about it. The GOP made the gains they did because of a disenfranchised and apathetic constituency.
Totally, I hear you. I’ve missed maybe 3 elections as an adult, and iirc they were off year primaries. I tried to vote Nancy Pelosi out of office for not being liberal enough. I live in SF and have the privilege to do that. I vote left up and down the ballot. Except president. Because that’s not what’s actually happening here. I don’t like it, and my vote may not matter anyway in California since 1988, but we’re debating christofascist autocracy vs capitalist oligarch republic, not liberal vs conservative. And any mf that can’t see that and considers not voting for the lowest denominator electable Dem is naive or immature. It doesn’t matter what one wants, reality matters. And the reality is half the country has forced us to have that election instead of an actual presidential one. So I’m fighting two party system (successfully) electing and supporting out of state friends running campaigns, for DSA candidates. Not by being unrealistic about how close we are to losing our democracy altogether bc I’m salty that the Dems are as centrist as they’ve ever been. I’m not a centrist, I’m just not living with my head in the sand or the clouds. I got downvoted above… People aren’t realistic. This is our reality today. One needn’t like it, but one must accept it. 🤷
Most importantly, this stance doesn’t piss off AIPAC. If you ever want the overarching position of the us govt on Israel to change, you need to do something about AIPAC. They hold enormous lobbying power and will put it behind your opponents if you don’t support Israel.
Biden will probably win some and lose some no matter what stance he takes on this issue. He might lose some pro-palestinian voters but gain some pro-israel moderates.
Still, I don’t think many pro-palestinian voters will move away from Democrats because there’s nowhere else to go except to not vote, which I guess some may choose.
With young voter turnout already so low, and the way Gen Z is killing it with anti war TikToks… Its a fucking death knell. The youth need to turn out, and this type of rhetoric is not going to help do that.
No one who wants Trump will change their minds to Biden, there is no point in even trying for their votes. The youth vote, the Muslim vote, the African American vote are needed to win and nothing turns off those three groups like supporting the crushing of a powerless group by a larger technologically superior force supported by your tax dollars.
Honestly. At this point I’m tempted to vote Trump just to watch this whole corrupt system crumble. It has to end.
Crumbling to the far-right would not be an improvement. “Different but worse” should not be a desirable outcome.
@Soggy
@naturalgasbad @voidMainVoid @GiddyGap @aodhsishaj @mycatiskai @coldasblues
Unless you live on the West coast! Maybe we can join up with Canada to become the new superpower?
It’s not going to crumble, the fact that you think voting for him will do that, means you have fallen for propaganda, it’s going to stay pretty much the same, but just with worse civil liberties, and an emboldened fascist religious crowd, which funny enough are more docile to the government.
Everyone says that throughout history until the “fascist religious crowd” decides to embark on the newest interpretation of a crusade.
Hence the worst civil liberties
I meant the literal Crusades with a capital C.
I’d rather you not vote for a platform that would likely make my existence as a trans person illegal. Thanks.
Oh, corruption is going to thrive under Trump. Did you not notice that last time around? Did you not notice the fake charities, the tax payer money funneled into Mar-a-Lago, the hundreds of millions going to Trump PACs, the money going to the Trump hotel in Washington DC, all the corruption and bribes and schemes?
And the fun thing is that now that Trump knows how to do all of this, how to funnel millions into his own pocket, a second Trump presidency is going to be corruption on steroids.
The only thing that’s going to crumble are democratic norms and human rights in the United States.
“He might lose some pro-palestinian voters but gain some pro-israel moderates”
This is the main problem with the democratic party. They are always tryign to please the far-right, but they are unwilling to compromise with the far-left
The far right actually holds political power in the US while the far left does not.
Being pro-Israel is not “far right” lol
Supporting apartheid is a far-right position.
Ironically, so is supporting the Hamas position that Israel shouldn’t exist.
To them “far right” just means “shit I don’t like.”
May as well call it the “neoliberal position” lol
I don’t disagree but I think the real problem is that this is how it has to be. We’ve pretty much completely lost the GOP government subversion scheme across all branches and levels. Forget foreign policy, we can’t even get people healthcare and homes. Because these terrorists have taken over our government. How are we going to get the nice things when we’re struggling to get our oxygen mask on?
And all of that is a consequence of demonizing and extinguishing all the left-wing movements in the US. And the democratic party is complicit in that.
It certainly says something about the average american that they are more willing to tolerate a fascist than a socialist.
If you’re concerned about this, get out and vote in ALL local elections, tell your coworkers about local elections, inform them about mail in and absentee voting.
I vote from my kitchen table and get confirmation that my vote was counted. You could too, if it’s not currently accessible to you, complain about it, talk to local news about it. The GOP made the gains they did because of a disenfranchised and apathetic constituency.
Totally, I hear you. I’ve missed maybe 3 elections as an adult, and iirc they were off year primaries. I tried to vote Nancy Pelosi out of office for not being liberal enough. I live in SF and have the privilege to do that. I vote left up and down the ballot. Except president. Because that’s not what’s actually happening here. I don’t like it, and my vote may not matter anyway in California since 1988, but we’re debating christofascist autocracy vs capitalist oligarch republic, not liberal vs conservative. And any mf that can’t see that and considers not voting for the lowest denominator electable Dem is naive or immature. It doesn’t matter what one wants, reality matters. And the reality is half the country has forced us to have that election instead of an actual presidential one. So I’m fighting two party system (successfully) electing and supporting out of state friends running campaigns, for DSA candidates. Not by being unrealistic about how close we are to losing our democracy altogether bc I’m salty that the Dems are as centrist as they’ve ever been. I’m not a centrist, I’m just not living with my head in the sand or the clouds. I got downvoted above… People aren’t realistic. This is our reality today. One needn’t like it, but one must accept it. 🤷
Most importantly, this stance doesn’t piss off AIPAC. If you ever want the overarching position of the us govt on Israel to change, you need to do something about AIPAC. They hold enormous lobbying power and will put it behind your opponents if you don’t support Israel.