And then instances start fighting and decelerate from each other and it becomes this annoying game of will I be able to see the content I want to tomorrow? We’ll see how it turns out. Needing to keep moving instances isn’t my idea of a good thing like everyone else seems to think it is.
I just want to find the content I like, the content that helps me solve problems, and a way to interact with it without being forced to see ads. I’m not going to use a worse product just because it’s not controlled by a corporation and I don’t think I’m alone in that across most of the population.
I don’t see it as a problem. If my instance starts walking off the content I like, then it’s a problem. But it’ll be a slow burn where I just use it less and less.
I think a fully p2p system with a community, a user, and a post being identified by a key and connected via asymmetric cryptography, and then a reputation system yielding a number between, say, -100 and +100, would work better.
That reputation system wouldn’t be like karma, it would possibly also affect whether we store something below -50 score, to then share.
It should be relative - we may attribute an evaluation to a thing, which would affect its children. Or we may attribute an evaluation to a user, and then derive score for a thing from that user’s evaluation of it. Or maybe all of the described.
Maybe something like that is going to be easier to build on Locutus when it becomes operational.
I don’t think that any single score is going to make everyone happy.
Maybe if there are multiple user-scoring systems run by various sources, and I can choose which score I want to use as a metric.
Like, I think that the Marxist-Leninist crowd on some of the left-wing instances is bonkers, but I imagine that they’d say the same thing about me or other people who subscribe to mainstream economics in general. You’re not going to find a Single Source of Truth on that matter.
Eh, that was the whole point. Do not leave moderation to other people or at least make that easy.
It should be relative
Which means that the score of anything would be derived from 1) what you directly set, 2) what another user sets, modified by what you set for that user, 3) what a user sets, modified by what is set for him by another user, which has a value set by you attributed …
One can even make a logic where you see high score for things disliked by people you dislike.
There is some computative difficulty, but nothing big for our times.
You’re touching a sore topic. Hence the downvotes, many that have bought into the fediverse, believe (in a religious cult way) that its architecture won’t be taken advantage of by bad actors. Even though history has proven the opposite.
I get that cult feeling for sure. There is a lot less nuance here. I’d be curious of the average demographic because I see a lot of naivety that’s probably linked to age & experience.
That’s such a reductive sweep of a whole userbase. It’s not because you have a negative outlook that everybody has to be like you.
People are thrilled to try and build something new and people like you come and shit on them to try to recreate reddit.
At the very least, people are trying to take back a part of the internet that corporations controlled for more than a decade. So it’s normal that when a megacorp come and try to muddle the water, people are refusing that because they know their M.O.
People are thrilled to try and build something new and people like you come and shit on them to try to recreate reddit.
I’m not stopping you. If you want to re-lean the lessons of the past because you ignore those that experienced them, feel free. You can’t design a system ripe for corporate takeover and act shocked when it happens.
You are advocating for Lemmy to be exactly that, a takeover from a big corporation. This is the exact reason why people don’t want to federate with Meta.
You want to redo the same exact thing that we did 10-15 years ago, expecting a different result.
No, I am pointing out that you developed a great open system with the false idea that individuals will be in power and little to no real consideration on how to stop corporations from taking it. Lemmy doesn’t exist in a vacuum. All the problems we have in real life with corporations gaining power is true in the fediverse, but worse because there are no courts to limit their power. Make no mistake about it, if Meta is motivated enough, they will steamroll everyone else. Not that many people are going to be loyal to the platform if the content isn’t there. If the content migrated to Threads so will 95% of the user base. Defederating one-by-one is not going to stop them and will fragment and make what we have now worse. I don’t believe it’s the answer, but am happy to be proven wrong.
And then instances start fighting and decelerate from each other and it becomes this annoying game of will I be able to see the content I want to tomorrow? We’ll see how it turns out. Needing to keep moving instances isn’t my idea of a good thing like everyone else seems to think it is.
If that is the case, then the Lemmy will start to shrink or straight up die, but that is life.
That’s the risk of the federation. But I much prefer that than a monolithic black box controlled by a mega corpo.
I just want to find the content I like, the content that helps me solve problems, and a way to interact with it without being forced to see ads. I’m not going to use a worse product just because it’s not controlled by a corporation and I don’t think I’m alone in that across most of the population.
Then maybe Lemmy isn’t for you then. The way the fediverse is structured at its core seems to be a problem for you.
I don’t see it as a problem. If my instance starts walking off the content I like, then it’s a problem. But it’ll be a slow burn where I just use it less and less.
Yes.
I think a fully p2p system with a community, a user, and a post being identified by a key and connected via asymmetric cryptography, and then a reputation system yielding a number between, say, -100 and +100, would work better.
That reputation system wouldn’t be like karma, it would possibly also affect whether we store something below -50 score, to then share.
It should be relative - we may attribute an evaluation to a thing, which would affect its children. Or we may attribute an evaluation to a user, and then derive score for a thing from that user’s evaluation of it. Or maybe all of the described.
Maybe something like that is going to be easier to build on Locutus when it becomes operational.
I don’t think that any single score is going to make everyone happy.
Maybe if there are multiple user-scoring systems run by various sources, and I can choose which score I want to use as a metric.
Like, I think that the Marxist-Leninist crowd on some of the left-wing instances is bonkers, but I imagine that they’d say the same thing about me or other people who subscribe to mainstream economics in general. You’re not going to find a Single Source of Truth on that matter.
Eh, that was the whole point. Do not leave moderation to other people or at least make that easy.
Which means that the score of anything would be derived from 1) what you directly set, 2) what another user sets, modified by what you set for that user, 3) what a user sets, modified by what is set for him by another user, which has a value set by you attributed …
One can even make a logic where you see high score for things disliked by people you dislike.
There is some computative difficulty, but nothing big for our times.
You’re touching a sore topic. Hence the downvotes, many that have bought into the fediverse, believe (in a religious cult way) that its architecture won’t be taken advantage of by bad actors. Even though history has proven the opposite.
Reminds me of this comment by one of the Lemmy devs: https://lemmy.ml/comment/6744852
Technology won’t save us if we allow unethical companies to mess with us.
Spot on… but we have very little power to stop them, unless you are comfortable with the size of Lemmy today.
I get that cult feeling for sure. There is a lot less nuance here. I’d be curious of the average demographic because I see a lot of naivety that’s probably linked to age & experience.
That’s such a reductive sweep of a whole userbase. It’s not because you have a negative outlook that everybody has to be like you.
People are thrilled to try and build something new and people like you come and shit on them to try to recreate reddit.
At the very least, people are trying to take back a part of the internet that corporations controlled for more than a decade. So it’s normal that when a megacorp come and try to muddle the water, people are refusing that because they know their M.O.
I’m not stopping you. If you want to re-lean the lessons of the past because you ignore those that experienced them, feel free. You can’t design a system ripe for corporate takeover and act shocked when it happens.
You are advocating for Lemmy to be exactly that, a takeover from a big corporation. This is the exact reason why people don’t want to federate with Meta.
You want to redo the same exact thing that we did 10-15 years ago, expecting a different result.
No, I am pointing out that you developed a great open system with the false idea that individuals will be in power and little to no real consideration on how to stop corporations from taking it. Lemmy doesn’t exist in a vacuum. All the problems we have in real life with corporations gaining power is true in the fediverse, but worse because there are no courts to limit their power. Make no mistake about it, if Meta is motivated enough, they will steamroll everyone else. Not that many people are going to be loyal to the platform if the content isn’t there. If the content migrated to Threads so will 95% of the user base. Defederating one-by-one is not going to stop them and will fragment and make what we have now worse. I don’t believe it’s the answer, but am happy to be proven wrong.