There’s this rising narrative going around that if you ask specifically for a CIS partner, you’re a transphobe. That could be true for some people but it’s not fundamentally related to bigotry. Moreover, this narrative, the “if you only want a CIS mate then that is prejudice” is trampling on one of the most important rights a person can have: the right to choose who they want to get intimate with.
First of all, transmen are in fact men and transwomen are in fact women. Let’s get that out of the way. This isn’t a foot in the door for “trans this really isn’t that” narratives. What this is about it is the freedom to choose who you want to be intimate with. That right is sancrosanct, it is absolutely inviolable.
And yes, there’s plenty of issues that make transgender dating a special issue. If someone reveals their TG status they can be open to hate crimes and even deadly violence. However all marginalized groups are special in their own way. As a black man I don’t think it’s racist if a woman says she doesn’t want to date a black man. I face oppression, too. My class is special in its own way. One group isn’t more special than the other. None of us have the right to force ourselves upon those who don’t want to be intimate with us, even by omitting who we really are.
Really, if you have to deceive or hide who you are in order to date someone, do you really want to date them? I wouldn’t. That’s not fair to you and you’re denying them their right to choose who they want. What do you think will happen when the person wants a CIS mate and they discover the truth? They’re going to get pissed and dump you. Now you have to shame them into staying with you: “If you loved me for real this wouldn’t bother you”… that’s not going to convince anyone. They’re either going to leave, or they’ll resent you forever. That’s just how it is. You can be mad at that but that’s about as effective as protesting the rising of the sun. There’s just no way to win once you’ve gone down that road.
“I want a CIS mate” is not the same as “trans women are not women” - one is a preference, the other is harmful prejudice. On the flip side CIS people who do date trans people shouldn’t be shamed for their choices either. A man should be free to date a trans woman and not catch flak about it. Trans people should be able to be openly trans and not face hate speech or threats to their well-being. This, without any exception whatsoever.
The fundamental fact is when you shame or worse abrogate people’s right to choose who they want to get intimate with, it’s not going to end well for you. All you’re going to get is people who resent being coerced or bullied to date people they don’t want to. And that’s not something the country, or the world, will ever put up with. Except that right now, most people don’t imagine they can be labeled a transphobe just for wanting a CIS mate. And unpopular opinion: that should be nipped in the bud.
Man I guess I’m a bigot, and I’m frustrated about it.
I get the phrase “transwomen are women” and respect that perspective.
But if I were seeking a cis woman partner who is seeking a cis man, it would be a dealbreaker if they were trans.
So I’m confronted with the reality that if I want to believe trans women are women, I shouldn’t be able to hold my second opinion, but it feels like one that can’t budge.
How to reconcile?
Are you attracted to every single woman that exists?
If not, then it is fine to not find certain groups of women not to your preferences without needing to define them as not women.
No, it’s not that I need to label anyone, but in the decision tree of selection, biological, born sexual features is right at the beginning. The character of those features is lower, obviously below personality and mental characteristics. But for example I’d like to have a child, so I need to seek out partners with whom that can possibly happen.
So it isn’t that I’m just like, grading people, it’s that some things are impossible or immoveable
Again this is just me, not attempting to impact anyone else’s path
As many of the other comments have pointed out, that’s not bigotry, as long as you respect their right to exist and aren’t looking down on them
Will naturally. Of course. The topic is successful coupling and how to signal desire without being bigoted
So you’d also refuse to date any older woman and anyone who’s had ovarian cancer?
I mean “refuse to date” seems pretty hostile, I’m just trying to find a partner who aligns with both my sexual interests AND life goals.
Obviously if my partner DEVELOPED cancer I wouldn’t ditch them, I’ve already committed to them. But if I’m just single and looking, why not seek what you’re actually looking for?
Well, we’re not talking about choice of partners, we’re talking about the specific act of having “no trans women” on your dating profile. So, does your dating profile say “no oldies”?
1 this is hypothetical, I’m happy married.
Don’t most profiles have age ranges?
Isn’t such a label the same as any other preference label?
It’s because you can’t change your sexuality. Being attracted only to CIS women is your sexuality.
That’s not how sexuality works.
Yes it is?
You didn’t explain why you’re seeking a cis woman partner. Nobody can say whether you’re transphobic until you give that detail. Try fleshing out this hypothetical and then I can give you a good answer and help you resolve this dilemma.
The crux of the discussion here is “how do you flag that you are seeking a cis woman partner without seeming a bigot”?
LOL you don’t. “Transwomen are women (except when I am choosing a mate, then I can be selective)”
Clarification: are you calling me out for inconsistency?
You called yourself out.
I’m not calling myself out, I’m exploring a personal facet.
I believe picking a mate is a 100% choice environment. I personally (as the subject of the example) am seeking a bio, cis woman.
The point of the thread is how to indicate your mate preference without being hurtful.
I dont think it’s bigoted to not seek a transgender mate, but am open to conversation on that. I can understand putting a “no trans” label on a profile can seem hurtful, even when the intention is anything but.
Your second statement (except for when I’m choosing a mate) seems reasonable. Is it not?
I’m not degrading trans women, I’m simply specifying the particulars of my search, which goes beyond “trans women are women”
Ah, so you’re saying “no trans”
Yes, people will feel excluded by this
Correct, you are just saying that they aren’t sexually attractive to you and you assign higher sexual market value to cis women and that you see trans women and cis women as different
And shouldn’t everyone individually assess their own "sexual market value"s, and be free to do so?
This is an “own” valuation, you aren’t valuing a whole group of people as “less than” you’re just valuing your own matches.
It’s not that I’m too good for any one in particular, just looking for certain varieties of humans to date
Yes
> “A and B are equal. However, I only prefer A. Why do people that enjoy A and B think I am being discriminatory towards B?”
That’s a huge logical leap you’re making , that sexual preference equates to having a higher opinion of one group over another. Is a gay man being discriminatory towards all women?
Again is the position of the speaker in your hanging question wrong/bigoted?
In my opinion not.
Perhaps shortsighted, overconcerned with others, but not bigoted