This logic astounds me. It’s possible to be against both, and still recognize that Russia acting in a way that is constantly and actively pursuing war.
Russian leadership (fascists) is acting in a way that is constantly and actively pursuing war*
If Russia is not a democracy, then people cannot be held responsible for the action of their government. No more then in Dresden or Hiroshima. Especially when Westerners (us, who supposedly, them, pick our leaders) are not held responsible for the atrocities committed by their government. Where are the sanctions for the Iraqi war?
Honestly, it looks like they are preparing the average joe’s mind for carpet bombing. Jingoism on all side.
If Russia is not a democracy, then people cannot be held responsible for the action of their government
Russia is just as much a democracy as the US. In the US, the electoral college picks the leaders, not the voting body. The electoral college has no legal obligation to follow the popular vote.
And besides that, Russia really wants to be able to say it’s a democracy. Ask the government there, they will tell you they’re a democracy. Just like the US.
Trying to insinuate that the American people are responsible for the actions of their government but the Russian people are not is pretty close to Russia apologist. Either the average Russian is responsible for changing their country or the average American is not. You don’t get both.
Where are the Iraq War sanctions?
Again, it’s possible to say that what the US did was wrong and still understand that what Russia is doing is also wrong. Bringing the “whatabout” argument at this point is deliberate deflection if you understand that you’re arguing with someone who agrees with you.
Either the average Russian is responsible for changing their country or the average American is not. You don’t get both.
Yes, exactly, none of them are.
Again, it’s possible to say that what the US did was wrong and still understand that what Russia is doing is also wrong.
What the Russian government is doing is wrong, absolutely. It’s not a reason to fall into jingoism and stupid stereotypes.
Bringing the “whatabout” argument at this point is deliberate deflection if you understand that you’re arguing with someone who agrees with you.
But the map is literally placing France and the US in “the good guys”. Whataboutism is when you bring out things out of the blue that aren’t being disgusted already.
The US pulled out of its wars. They may not be the good guy on the world stage in a cumulative sense, but their leaders pulled out of their wars and aren’t picking any fights. Despite what you might think, wars aren’t popular in the US either.
Russia is actively being the bad guy right now.
Whataboutism is when you bring out things out of the blue that aren’t being disgusted already.
Nobody said anything about Iraq. You sort of brought that up out of nowhere, as if to say what about when it was different?
In any case, if all of this is about a meme labeling some countries good and some countries bad, a meme that isn’t even trying to be accurate on either front, maybe you should ask yourself why you care so much that you’re starting fires about how the west is just as bad?
You don’t think the average person on lemmy hears that from the lurking tankies every single day? You’re pretty much preaching to the choir here.
I don’t disagree with you that the US is not a good guy on the world stage. However, the Israel-Palestine war is politically complex and tensions have been mounting for decades. Israel hold the cards for ending that, not the US.
The fact that US taxpayers are funding Israel is bad. But saying that compares to Russia actively invading Ukraine for 2+ years is just dishonest. Russia can stop whenever they want and Putin has stated he believes that land to be his right.
In this situation, Russia is more like Israel. Not the US.
“US does it so it’s cool for Russia too”
This logic astounds me. It’s possible to be against both, and still recognize that Russia acting in a way that is constantly and actively pursuing war.
Russian leadership (fascists) is acting in a way that is constantly and actively pursuing war*
If Russia is not a democracy, then people cannot be held responsible for the action of their government. No more then in Dresden or Hiroshima. Especially when Westerners (us, who supposedly, them, pick our leaders) are not held responsible for the atrocities committed by their government. Where are the sanctions for the Iraqi war?
Honestly, it looks like they are preparing the average joe’s mind for carpet bombing. Jingoism on all side.
Russia is just as much a democracy as the US. In the US, the electoral college picks the leaders, not the voting body. The electoral college has no legal obligation to follow the popular vote.
And besides that, Russia really wants to be able to say it’s a democracy. Ask the government there, they will tell you they’re a democracy. Just like the US.
Trying to insinuate that the American people are responsible for the actions of their government but the Russian people are not is pretty close to Russia apologist. Either the average Russian is responsible for changing their country or the average American is not. You don’t get both.
Again, it’s possible to say that what the US did was wrong and still understand that what Russia is doing is also wrong. Bringing the “whatabout” argument at this point is deliberate deflection if you understand that you’re arguing with someone who agrees with you.
Yes, exactly, none of them are.
What the Russian government is doing is wrong, absolutely. It’s not a reason to fall into jingoism and stupid stereotypes.
But the map is literally placing France and the US in “the good guys”. Whataboutism is when you bring out things out of the blue that aren’t being disgusted already.
Ok, and?
The US pulled out of its wars. They may not be the good guy on the world stage in a cumulative sense, but their leaders pulled out of their wars and aren’t picking any fights. Despite what you might think, wars aren’t popular in the US either.
Russia is actively being the bad guy right now.
Nobody said anything about Iraq. You sort of brought that up out of nowhere, as if to say what about when it was different?
In any case, if all of this is about a meme labeling some countries good and some countries bad, a meme that isn’t even trying to be accurate on either front, maybe you should ask yourself why you care so much that you’re starting fires about how the west is just as bad?
You don’t think the average person on lemmy hears that from the lurking tankies every single day? You’re pretty much preaching to the choir here.
US is currently actively supporting Israel in the destruction and leveling of Palestine. They are the bad guy right now.
But speaking out against the biggest economy in the world is suicidal, so surprise surprise - barely anyone does.
I don’t disagree with you that the US is not a good guy on the world stage. However, the Israel-Palestine war is politically complex and tensions have been mounting for decades. Israel hold the cards for ending that, not the US.
The fact that US taxpayers are funding Israel is bad. But saying that compares to Russia actively invading Ukraine for 2+ years is just dishonest. Russia can stop whenever they want and Putin has stated he believes that land to be his right.
In this situation, Russia is more like Israel. Not the US.
It’s not politically complex. One side have more UN condemnation than freaking North Korea.
So did Netanyahu.
Did you just gloss over the point?
Which wasn’t that what Israel is in the right, or that the US is blameless.
It’s that Russia is like Israel.
Yeah. That’s sort of exactly what I said, thanks
Fair enough
Yeah sorry, it tickles me to see a meme making fun of non-white countries for being unevolved. Sounds like a white f-word to me ;)