Where did I say morals get based off of desires? Morals have to do with behaviors and what is acceptable or not - not desires. Your, again, presupposing an argument onto me. I never said such a thing.

I’m going to ask you again. What are your morals based off of? You said abuse and illness is bad. Why? You don’t know why, you just have a feeling it is. Care to explain morality for me please? I’m not playing a semantics game, I’m playing a definitions game because if you don’t even know what you are talking about, then it’s not worth discussing it.

What you’re doing now is all “The appeal to God.” Basically if you can’t explain something, you believe it’s God.

I’m talking about morality here. If there is no God, morality does not exist period. You can’t make morality out of nothing. Like you said it will be subjective and contexual. So what you are really saying is there is no right answer and there are no universal morals. So if you do believe that then stop criticizing those that don’t align with your morals because at the end of the day, they are just as right as you are. So your entire argument against me on homophobia and bigotry is meaningless because you can’t say I’m right or wrong because all morals are subjective.

Wouldn’t that mean non-religous people do that now? People who don’t agree with your religion would already be this way right? So why aren’t they? You’re acting like individuals DON’T have fee will. That they’re slaves to their desires. People aren’t, people have humility, people have generosity, all without being religious.

Non-religious people already are following their own morals based off desires. Allowing alcohol, marijuana, homosexuality, etc. All these things have been scientifically proven to have negative effects on individuals and yet people still continue to do them. So no, people are in fact slaves to their own desires. I never said they didn’t have free will. Their free will is following their own desires. If you have no purpose in life like non-religious people, what else would you do besides that? People having humility and generosity without faith doesn’t make sense either. Why would someone do that unless they stand to gain something? Maybe a better community? People would praise them more? You can’t do something for the sake of doing it without any good reason. If you do, then you are no different from an animal. Maybe even worse because at least an animal would do things for self-preservation. All these things like humility and generosity without reason is just for people to feel better about themselves.

Uhhh, yes I did? I listed abuse, I listed illness. So you’re just ignoring what I write now. I didn’t even ask about good or evil here, I asked why would a good God allow that - youre the one claiming hes good, it’s you’re job to justify how you think abusing kids is good. You’re playing a semantics game, instead of answering, you’re falling back onto the pretending to not know the meaning of words.

Like I said in my first paragraph, can you explain why these things are evil? It is your subjective morality, why should I bother arguing if you believe everyone has their own morals? If my answer about Allah allowing things to happen and all happenings are predestined (Qadr). And He is All-Wise and All-Powerful. And you don’t trust His plan. Then that’s on you. I don’t have to justify His actions if you don’t like them. I’m not a prophet. If you want to talk about the divine nature of the Quran, we can do that. My evidence I gave previously is referring to the preservation of the Quran. Can you name any other sacred text with this level of preservation? No. So don’t write off all religions as the same in your head because that is just showing your ignorance in the field. If you don’t want to talk about the Quran then you won’t understand the foundation of my arguments.

This just feels like a self report of your own internal feelings. Are you saying you would want to kill people if you were religious? That’s all you man. I don’t want anyone to die.

Self-report? I thought you cared about the greater good. If you don’t want anyone to die, why? The world will be better off with the elderly and terminally ill gone. Can you explain why that is a moral dilemma for you? I don’t believe in these things because I get my morality from Islam. But you have your own morals from some arbitrary criteria you set for yourself and can be argued against. This entire time you have never explained why you believe in the things you believe in. On the other hand, I’ve explained all the things I believe in and why. If you don’t like the answers, that’s a different story but I’m explaining God’s nature through His attributes. If you don’t see the wisdom in His actions, that’s your problem. I also don’t claim to know everything about why God does certain things but He explains Himself that He knows more than we do. So trust His plan if you truly believe.

This is 100% a self report. Why would gay people be put in mental hospitals? That’s just what YOU want - which has been influenced by your religion.

Yes I believe in these things because of my religion. What’s wrong with that? Morality is subjective remember.

What evidence? So far you’re only response to Amy of my questions is “God works in mysterious ways.” I even called it out before you said it. It’s not an answer - it’s literally saying “there is no answer.” I don’t have negative opinions about religion because I’m anti-theist. I have negative opinions about religion because there is no evidence it’s true and it activity hurts society - which then classifies me as anti-theist. You’re also using circular reasoning. “The book is real because it comes from God, but God is real because the book says so.” Harry Potter’s book says he’s real. He’s a wizard, so you know he’s powerful enough to be real - his book says so.

We haven’t even began to discuss about religion. We’ve only been talking about morality. If you actually researched about religions you wouldn’t b saying there is no evidence for God. You just haven’t looked into it. And how does it actively hurt society? Morals are subjective. I don’t want to have to keep bringing this up but all your arguments fall flat because of this one point. Nothing is right or wrong from your perspective so you shouldn’t be saying things like “X is bad” or “X is good”

I didn’t make the point that the Quran is from Allah because Allah said so. When talking about morality, I’m going to use the Quran as my criteria. The discussion on whether the Quran is from God or not is a seperate discussion which I would be happy to have but you don’t seem to want to talk about it. Not sure why.

I’m not presupposing God isn’t real - I’m asking for evidence he is and you aren’t giving any. I even said if he is real, he isn’t the good guy. You clearly have had these types of discussions before and are now projecting arguments onto me.

So do you want to talk about the evidence for God or not? Again you are putting limits on God which are not there. He isn’t good because you don’t understand why? Is that even a reason? I actually haven’t had discussions like these before. This is actually my first time talking in depth about morality and religion. Before that I was just researching.

Again, why do morals need to be objective? They aren’t. Is it wrong to steal? Yeah. Is it morally wrong to steal from a man who stole the wealth of a nation to ffes your family? No. There is no such thing as “objective” morality. It’s all subjective and contextual.

Why is it wrong to steal though? And how is it ok to steal from someone who did wrong to you? Two wrongs don’t make a right. You need to explain why you believe in certain things. You can’t just use your feelings to say things are right or wrong.

God has no limits but allows terrible things (like I listed above). That makes him not good. This is just another semantics move.

I’m going to bring this point again. Why are these things bad? This is not semantics, try to understand. You have to explain why these things are bad. I’m bringing this point again and again because there is no objective morality for you. If you have no objective morality, you can’t say things are good or bad. And like I said, they are bad in your eyes, but God has a greater plan.