Using the rhetoric of the First Amendment, a string of US Supreme Court cases has allowed members of some religious groups to limit the freedoms of other Americans.
I like your honesty, but Christianity has a core problem in that its holy texts can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. There is no “plain reading,” except when it suits someone’s designs (and if it comes down to that, it’s often to the detriment of individuals or society at large).
On top of that, the doctrine that “God’s laws are above human laws” is what has given rise to special treatment of Christians; it’s why pastors routinely are able to hide sexual abuse and then make a public show of contrition; it’s why churches can be classified as 503c charities, yet are not compelled to follow the same strict transparency guidelines as secular 503c’s.
The foundation of Christianity is too malleable and too easily weaponized by ambitious villains, and I wish more lovely people like you would stand up, say, “Enough!” and then do something about it.
I agree with much of what you’re saying. Using scripture as a weapon (to condemn NOT that which is wrong, but that they don’t like or understand) and as a shield (to defend themselves against their abhorrent acts) is a despicable cancer that has festered since the dawn of the religion. I again look at the way much of the community behaves and just feel… deeply sad at how much they choose to misunderstand Jesus’ message and just hate.
I mentioned this to another person, but the problem is that with the right emphasis, the hateful Jesus is in there, too. Jesus overturned tables, whipped people, chastised people, came to “bring a sword to divide,” and will allegedly one day come back on a cloud of fire and lightning to exact punishment and vengeance upon the unbelievers. If you desire a strong-man to save what you see as a culture in peril, besieged by evil forces, there he is.
The loving Jesus and the vengeful Jesus are both in there, and I wish more people were inclined to build their paradigm upon the latter.
If you are a Christian, and you find people who identify with your religion who are instead focusing on the former, I hope you have the boldness to call them out.
Most of the vengeful Jesus comes from people doing evil things in His name. Going into places where people claim they love him and then doing evil underhanded things with His name as a shield.
In recent years a lot of the ideologies I hold have started differing from my family’s. I know they all mean well, but a lot of them hold disdain for my ideologies and it’s been hard to stand up for myself since growing up we all got along really well. Some of them are willing to just talk and I appreciate them greatly.
I understand. Changing what people feel like should be unified core values, especially around religion, must be very threatening to them. What does it mean to have a “true religion,” if one can change their paradigm?
I think it’s good that you are finding your own way with your own intellect. If there’s a god out there, I should think it would want its followers to earnestly seek truth based on evidence and not satisfy doubts and curiosity with thought-terminating-clichés.
I was going to put the Einstein quote about religion and science here, but after reading about it, I understand that I don’t firmly grasp its full context and therefor should probably stop saying it lol I still believe science is a way to explain our world for the curious and determined but that faith still has its place.
I have a lot of my core values changing and it’s hard and scary, even having been surrounded by so many differing opinions and beliefs growing up. I can’t imagine how hard it is for them that are 40+ and have been mostly insulated.
I have a lot of my core values changing and it’s hard and scary, even having been surrounded by so many differing opinions and beliefs growing up.
I get it, and I hope you have some people in your life who can help you with that. I basically had to do a lot of that kind of thing on my own, so I know firsthand how hard that can be.
Christianity has a core problem in that its holy texts can be interpreted in a myriad of ways.
Only if you completely ignore all context, as modern Christianity has done. With even a little historical and cultural knowledge, the context makes the vast majority of it quite clear. That clarity also stands in stark opposition to a vast swath of modern Christian dogma and teaching, so there is a vested interest to keep the context out of mainstream discussion.
With even a little historical and cultural knowledge, the context makes the vast majority of it quite clear.
If that was at all true, there wouldn’t be different sects and denominations, and indeed, Christianity as we know it likely wouldn’t exist.
Christianity (and it’s progenitor Judaism) is and always has been interpreted through the lens of culture, and it just so happens that we have at least two subcultures, religious progressives and conservatives, in the United States that insist their interpretation is the most true, correct, and faithful to the text. If I had a dollar for every time a Christian said, “But if you only read it with the proper context…”
What you find clear about the texts of the Bible through your own paradigm, unfortunately, doesn’t agree with the hate preachers and the Revelation-thumpers, who instead choose to emphasize the vengeful Jesus who zealously overturned tables, whipped people, and will one day ride in on a cloud of fire and lightning to exact judgement and vengeance upon humanity.
Your Jesus of love and acceptance and their Jesus of blood and vengeance both exist in your Bible, and which you choose to follow seems to be a largely subjective matter. So again I reiterate: a core problem is the holy texts themselves.
I think it’s admirable that you choose a more humanist path because of what you feel is self-apparent about your god and your religion. I just wish your brethren all felt the same way.
I’m not especially religious. I was raised in that environment - the vengeful hellfire version, no less - and repeatedly found that it did not hold up to even a little scrutiny. And when I challenged the fact that the scripture I was being told to read outright condemned the behavior, teachings, and interpretations that were being foisted on me at home and on Sundays - it was not those vile teachings that were the problem… it was me.
I’m more an adherent of accuracy in all things, and I will call out things I know to be false. My loves how, around Christmas, I repeatedly remind them that Jesus was most likely born in Sept-Oct and that Christmas and all it’s traditions are wildly pagan, and wish them all a Happy Yule.
But yeah, Jesus/Yeshua was a humanist. Even the flipping tables and whipping happened against people who were taking advantage of others. I can imagine him, Carl Sagan, and Siddhartha Gautama getting along famously.
I like your honesty, but Christianity has a core problem in that its holy texts can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. There is no “plain reading,” except when it suits someone’s designs (and if it comes down to that, it’s often to the detriment of individuals or society at large).
On top of that, the doctrine that “God’s laws are above human laws” is what has given rise to special treatment of Christians; it’s why pastors routinely are able to hide sexual abuse and then make a public show of contrition; it’s why churches can be classified as 503c charities, yet are not compelled to follow the same strict transparency guidelines as secular 503c’s.
The foundation of Christianity is too malleable and too easily weaponized by ambitious villains, and I wish more lovely people like you would stand up, say, “Enough!” and then do something about it.
I agree with much of what you’re saying. Using scripture as a weapon (to condemn NOT that which is wrong, but that they don’t like or understand) and as a shield (to defend themselves against their abhorrent acts) is a despicable cancer that has festered since the dawn of the religion. I again look at the way much of the community behaves and just feel… deeply sad at how much they choose to misunderstand Jesus’ message and just hate.
I mentioned this to another person, but the problem is that with the right emphasis, the hateful Jesus is in there, too. Jesus overturned tables, whipped people, chastised people, came to “bring a sword to divide,” and will allegedly one day come back on a cloud of fire and lightning to exact punishment and vengeance upon the unbelievers. If you desire a strong-man to save what you see as a culture in peril, besieged by evil forces, there he is.
The loving Jesus and the vengeful Jesus are both in there, and I wish more people were inclined to build their paradigm upon the latter.
If you are a Christian, and you find people who identify with your religion who are instead focusing on the former, I hope you have the boldness to call them out.
Most of the vengeful Jesus comes from people doing evil things in His name. Going into places where people claim they love him and then doing evil underhanded things with His name as a shield. In recent years a lot of the ideologies I hold have started differing from my family’s. I know they all mean well, but a lot of them hold disdain for my ideologies and it’s been hard to stand up for myself since growing up we all got along really well. Some of them are willing to just talk and I appreciate them greatly.
I understand. Changing what people feel like should be unified core values, especially around religion, must be very threatening to them. What does it mean to have a “true religion,” if one can change their paradigm?
I think it’s good that you are finding your own way with your own intellect. If there’s a god out there, I should think it would want its followers to earnestly seek truth based on evidence and not satisfy doubts and curiosity with thought-terminating-clichés.
I was going to put the Einstein quote about religion and science here, but after reading about it, I understand that I don’t firmly grasp its full context and therefor should probably stop saying it lol I still believe science is a way to explain our world for the curious and determined but that faith still has its place.
I have a lot of my core values changing and it’s hard and scary, even having been surrounded by so many differing opinions and beliefs growing up. I can’t imagine how hard it is for them that are 40+ and have been mostly insulated.
I get it, and I hope you have some people in your life who can help you with that. I basically had to do a lot of that kind of thing on my own, so I know firsthand how hard that can be.
Only if you completely ignore all context, as modern Christianity has done. With even a little historical and cultural knowledge, the context makes the vast majority of it quite clear. That clarity also stands in stark opposition to a vast swath of modern Christian dogma and teaching, so there is a vested interest to keep the context out of mainstream discussion.
If that was at all true, there wouldn’t be different sects and denominations, and indeed, Christianity as we know it likely wouldn’t exist.
Christianity (and it’s progenitor Judaism) is and always has been interpreted through the lens of culture, and it just so happens that we have at least two subcultures, religious progressives and conservatives, in the United States that insist their interpretation is the most true, correct, and faithful to the text. If I had a dollar for every time a Christian said, “But if you only read it with the proper context…”
What you find clear about the texts of the Bible through your own paradigm, unfortunately, doesn’t agree with the hate preachers and the Revelation-thumpers, who instead choose to emphasize the vengeful Jesus who zealously overturned tables, whipped people, and will one day ride in on a cloud of fire and lightning to exact judgement and vengeance upon humanity.
Your Jesus of love and acceptance and their Jesus of blood and vengeance both exist in your Bible, and which you choose to follow seems to be a largely subjective matter. So again I reiterate: a core problem is the holy texts themselves.
I think it’s admirable that you choose a more humanist path because of what you feel is self-apparent about your god and your religion. I just wish your brethren all felt the same way.
I’m not especially religious. I was raised in that environment - the vengeful hellfire version, no less - and repeatedly found that it did not hold up to even a little scrutiny. And when I challenged the fact that the scripture I was being told to read outright condemned the behavior, teachings, and interpretations that were being foisted on me at home and on Sundays - it was not those vile teachings that were the problem… it was me.
I’m more an adherent of accuracy in all things, and I will call out things I know to be false. My loves how, around Christmas, I repeatedly remind them that Jesus was most likely born in Sept-Oct and that Christmas and all it’s traditions are wildly pagan, and wish them all a Happy Yule.
But yeah, Jesus/Yeshua was a humanist. Even the flipping tables and whipping happened against people who were taking advantage of others. I can imagine him, Carl Sagan, and Siddhartha Gautama getting along famously.
You’re good people. I think we’ve successfully beat this subject to death. I hope you have a lovely week.