• Leadership knew that the taliban was not responsible for 9/11 but entered the country anyway. Unlike Iraq, there is no oil in Afghanistan. There was no strategic value in conquering this country other than intimidating other countries not to fuck with the states.
  • USA spends 39% of global spending on military but has only 4% of the population.
  • Vietnam is the most bombed country in the world.
  • The US has caused so much suffering, instated dictators like Pinochet, fueled proxy wars in Latin America and in the middle-east, they even funded the taliban in the 80s.
  • American foreign policy is insane and USA is a terrorist state.

change my mind internet.

edit: spelling

  • Saganaki@lemmy.one
    42·
    9 months ago

    I don’t think I’ll be able to change your mind (I personally don’t think you’re necessarily wrong—it is subjective after all) but some things can be explained a little bit.

    Leadership knew that the taliban was not responsible for 9/11 but entered the country anyway. Unlike Iraq, there is no oil in Afghanistan. There was no strategic value in conquering this country other than intimidating other countries not to fuck with the states.

    I don’t have anything here, really.

    USA spends 39% of global spending on military but has only 4% of the population.

    This is far more easily explained. The US has so many military commitments. NATO, Rio treaty, Australia/New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, Korea…and that’s definitely not a complete list. The US is also sort of the only reliable military that can be anywhere rather quickly. The US has historically provided a lot of humanitarian via the use of its military logistics. Kosovo, Fukushima, and Haiti come to immediate mind, but I know there’s a lot more.

    Vietnam is the most bombed country in the world.

    Probably. But it is important to understand the context of the world at the time. The Cold War was a weird and potentially dangerous time. It’s easy to look back on this now with “we shouldn’t have been there” but it’s also very certainly possible if the US wasn’t involved there, countries further S/SE of Vietnam could have also “succumbed to Communism/Socialism” or just been plain invaded.

    The US has caused so much suffering, instated dictators like Pinochet, fueled proxy wars in Latin America and in the middle-east, they even funded the taliban in the 80s.

    Yes, definitely a lot of bad choices. But some were often believed to be the least bad option at the time.

    It’s also important to remember that Communist/Socialist leaders were also responsible for a large number of atrocities. Khmer Rouge killing fields comes to mind. I’d probably guess that Socialist/Communist leaders were more ruthless & responsible for more deaths than US-backed ones on a “per-instance case”, but I’m not a historian and am fully willing to be convinced otherwise with evidence.

    American foreign policy is insane and USA is a terrorist state.

    I’m curious what aspects of foreign policy you find insane. Some instances make a lot of sense to me (Ukraine, for example). Others, such as Israel, sort of make sense from a “cold-blooded” point of view (needing an ally in the region) even though I don’t agree with it with all on a personal level.

    I guess my point of view sort of boils down to: If there’s a power vacuum, a single group or nation will attempt to take that power vacuum. And the US certainly isn’t ideal, but very well could be the “least bad option”. This may certainly be me having this opinion because I grew up in the US, but I personally wouldn’t want China or Russia, for example, holding the same position the US currently does.

    • Chirpy1410OP
      1·
      9 months ago

      i like your thinking. especially the part about needing an ally like Isreal in the middle east.

      I think that the idea of “least bad option” and power vacums is messed up. I am a pacifist. Maybe this is the world we live in. Step on people or get stepped on. I just think the charade of US being some benevolent savior is such bullshit and it would be nice to shed some light on all the suffering an injustice caused by waging all these foreign wars.

      I think the least bad option would be diplomacy.

      I think the least bad option would be not to bully other countries through threats of violence or economical sanctions of they don’t come around to US policy.

      I think that manufacturing consent through accusing other countries of not being democratic is doesn’t justify war. That is lying to the public and makes people not trust government.

      Thank you for addressing my previous points. I have now gotten my unpopular opinion out of my system. Time for coffee

      • Saganaki@lemmy.one
        1·
        9 months ago

        i like your thinking. especially the part about needing an ally like Isreal in the middle east.

        Eh, it’s not a great argument—just an argument.

        I think that the idea of “least bad option” and power vacums is messed up. I am a pacifist. Maybe this is the world we live in. Step on people or get stepped on. I just think the charade of US being some benevolent savior is such bullshit and it would be nice to shed some light on all the suffering an injustice caused by waging all these foreign wars.

        I agree. It’s not merely messed up, but fucked up. Unfortunately, I honestly believe that another super power would eventually do the same thing the US is doing. I don’t claim that the US is some benevolent savior and honestly, barring MAGA republicans, I don’t think many US citizens do either. Is there a sense of apathy? Most definitely—people don’t believe (in many cases, rightfully so) they have an impact/voice in the matter.

        I think the least bad option would be diplomacy.

        Agreed. But history has shown time and time again, it doesn’t always work. You can’t do diplomacy without power behind it. Look at Russia v Ukraine for an example.

        I think the least bad option would be not to bully other countries through threats of violence or economical sanctions of they don’t come around to US policy.

        Sure? But sometimes that’s required because some country’s leadership won’t respond to anything other than violence/sanctions.

        I think that manufacturing consent through accusing other countries of not being democratic is doesn’t justify war. That is lying to the public and makes people not trust government.

        Sure, but that’s politics. In a utopian ideal of a world, that makes sense. I don’t think it does for our world, though.