In the time of active war I don’t think not supporting Ukraine is an option. Don’t cherry pick their vote on the matter as a whole. The people who voted against supporting Ukraine have done a lot of work to convince US citizens that supporting Ukraine is wrong. Which is then fundamentally flawed because if they don’t support Ukraine then Putin are certainly going to take over Ukraine, and all the biggest allies of US in the Europe are under direct threat of Putin. Unless they are acting on behalf of pure evil, pure hate against Ukraine, or perhaps on behalf of Putin himself, I don’t see why they would want US to be out of the game.
Firstly, thanks for the thoughtful response rather than just making a false insinuations about my stance on the matter. There’s, in my opinion, solid arguments for the Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary. If we took a more passive role on the global stage we might not have been at war as much the past few decades. But the more interventionist approach has lead us to being a global power and allowed for the spread of American ideals.
As for Putin’s odds, personally I think his ability to actualize victory over most of our NATO allies is curbed by our mutual defense pacts. I don’t see Russia having the capacity to challenge America in peer to peer conflict, let alone all of NATO’s nations. Ukraine alone without the support nets likely would see greater troubles defending itself. But I wouldn’t say Russia would be at to great of an advantage then given the quality of their military.
If those 70 subscribe to the idea that inaction isn’t in itself an action, I would attribute that to evil but rather a difference in what they value from you. Perhaps support to Ukraine by other means might be more palatable to them (like tarrifs on Russia and it’s trade partners).
Ukraine is right between NATO countries and Russia. So if Russia takes Ukraine, they are in direct contact with NATO countries. With Putin’s conquerer approach to retake former soviet land, I would say he is certainly going to attack former soviet separated countries if he is successful in Ukraine, and next step the NATO countries. Putin is ruthless and non capitalist in a sense that his ultimate goal is not to make the most money in the world, but rather to conquer as much as possible land in his life and make Russia the fearless kingdom in the Europe once again, which makes him unpredictable and dangerous. He does not value sanctions from the west as much as the other countries that rely on foreign trading to the west to stay afloat, the Russians have plenty of connection to mid east countries, China, India , turkey to keep trading. They produce oil as well so they will not collapse like Nazis since they have a constant supply of fuel and energy.
In the time of active war I don’t think not supporting Ukraine is an option. Don’t cherry pick their vote on the matter as a whole. The people who voted against supporting Ukraine have done a lot of work to convince US citizens that supporting Ukraine is wrong. Which is then fundamentally flawed because if they don’t support Ukraine then Putin are certainly going to take over Ukraine, and all the biggest allies of US in the Europe are under direct threat of Putin. Unless they are acting on behalf of pure evil, pure hate against Ukraine, or perhaps on behalf of Putin himself, I don’t see why they would want US to be out of the game.
Firstly, thanks for the thoughtful response rather than just making a false insinuations about my stance on the matter. There’s, in my opinion, solid arguments for the Monroe Doctrine and Roosevelt Corollary. If we took a more passive role on the global stage we might not have been at war as much the past few decades. But the more interventionist approach has lead us to being a global power and allowed for the spread of American ideals.
As for Putin’s odds, personally I think his ability to actualize victory over most of our NATO allies is curbed by our mutual defense pacts. I don’t see Russia having the capacity to challenge America in peer to peer conflict, let alone all of NATO’s nations. Ukraine alone without the support nets likely would see greater troubles defending itself. But I wouldn’t say Russia would be at to great of an advantage then given the quality of their military.
If those 70 subscribe to the idea that inaction isn’t in itself an action, I would attribute that to evil but rather a difference in what they value from you. Perhaps support to Ukraine by other means might be more palatable to them (like tarrifs on Russia and it’s trade partners).
In what fucking universe does Russia’s military pose any credible threat to western Europe?
Good point.
Russia has a substantial number of nuclear weapons.
Before their failure in taking the Ukraine it was widely believed they had the second most powerful army in the world.
Russia would lose a war against the west, but it would cause significant damage, to state otherwise is being naive.
Ukraine is right between NATO countries and Russia. So if Russia takes Ukraine, they are in direct contact with NATO countries. With Putin’s conquerer approach to retake former soviet land, I would say he is certainly going to attack former soviet separated countries if he is successful in Ukraine, and next step the NATO countries. Putin is ruthless and non capitalist in a sense that his ultimate goal is not to make the most money in the world, but rather to conquer as much as possible land in his life and make Russia the fearless kingdom in the Europe once again, which makes him unpredictable and dangerous. He does not value sanctions from the west as much as the other countries that rely on foreign trading to the west to stay afloat, the Russians have plenty of connection to mid east countries, China, India , turkey to keep trading. They produce oil as well so they will not collapse like Nazis since they have a constant supply of fuel and energy.