The bridge suffered damage after one of its sections was blown up, killing two people and wounding a child.

Traffic on the single bridge that links Russia to Moscow-annexed Crimea and serves as a key supply route for the Kremlin’s forces in the war with Ukraine came to a standstill on Monday after one of its sections was blown up, killing a couple and wounding their daughter.

The RBC Ukraine news agency reported that explosions were heard on the bridge, with Russian military bloggers reporting two strikes.

RBC Ukraine and another Ukrainian news outlet Ukrainska Pravda said the attack was planned jointly by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Ukrainian navy, and involved sea drones.

  • barsoapEnglish
    222·
    1 year ago

    Then just speak to some people physically in Crimea? You’re on the internet it’s not difficult to seek out and have conversations with people in different places in the world.

    Of course. Because that’s totally not something the FSB would do to sniff out partisans and shit. There’s a war going on in case you haven’t noticed and truth is always its first victim.

    Increasing ethnic persecution against Russians and finally banning the russian language is what started the separatism in these regions.

    Neither was there prosecution nor was the Russian language banned. The Ukrainian army largely operates in Russian, FFS.

    I suggest you have a good look at the reliability of whatever place you get your information from.

        • barsoapEnglish
          15·
          1 year ago

          Why are you quoting a member of the Golden Dawn as if Nazis were a reliable source of information? Are you a Nazbol?

          • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
            211·
            1 year ago

            Lmao I had no idea he was to be honest. You’re right. Let’s get something else then. (And no I’m certainly fucking not.)

            A couple of western media articles discussing the split the existing language law was causing in the country:

            2000: Ukraine wages war on Russian language

            2012: Russian language debate splits Ukraine

            2012: Ukrainians(far right) protest against Russian language law

            2014(when the law actually occurred): Ukraine Revokes Linguistic Rights

            This last one is the most interesting, also 2014 from Time: Many Ukrainians Want Russia To Invade

            Within two days of taking power, the revolutionary leaders passed a bill revoking the rights of Ukraine’s regions to make Russian an official language alongside Ukrainian. That outraged the Russian-speaking half of the country, and the ban was quickly lifted. But the damage was done. With that one ill-considered piece of legislation, the new leaders had convinced millions of ethnic Russians that a wave of repression awaited them. So it was no surprise on Friday when a livid mob in Crimea attacked a liberal lawmaker who came to reason with them. Struggling to make his case over the screaming throng, Petro Poroshenko was chased back to his car amid cries of “fascist!”

            • barsoapEnglish
              131·
              1 year ago

              Remember how that law never went into effect and in fact regions have the right to have secondary official languages? Including Russian?

              Also, that it wasn’t a law furnishing new modes of repression but a law repealing the granting of rights to minority languages? And the law was by an interim government? And Right Sector and shit massively lost votes after all that?

              Yes, Ukraine had a political divide roughly among the Russian/Ukrainian native language rift, caused by Russia (Empire, USSR) by the Russification programme, by Russia (Federation) stoking it with hybrid warfare. Ukraine was torn between going to the west, into the EU (NATO wasn’t nearly as popular), or towards Russia’s economic bloc. Becoming part of Russia was never on the table, that’s always been a small minority position of a minority position.

              That very much changed towards majority support for NATO accession after the annexation of Crimea (and, no, Crimeans not being asked doesn’t explain the shift), and to absolutely overwhelming after the 2022 invasion.

              Russia overplayed its hand. Massively: They could’ve kept Ukraine in alignment limbo, maybe even have them turn eastwards, but they just had to get greedy and annex and invade. They’ve also lost all the hybrid warfare opportunities among e.g. the Russian minorities in the Baltic countries.

              And maybe you should read more primary sources instead of random Anglo press articles. Or read the articles, for that matter, things like

              Lviv’s language war was ignited by the death of a popular local folk-singer, Igor Bilozir. At an outdoor cafe one evening in May, he and a friend were playing his Ukrainian ballads while a group of Russian youths at the next table were singing songs in Russian.

              The Russians warned Bilozir to stop singing in Ukrainian. He refused. They came to blows. The fighting spilled along the street and the 45-year-old slumped to the ground after a blow to the head. He died three weeks later in hospital, becoming for Ukrainian nationalists an instant martyr.

              “He was killed because he sang songs in his own language,” says Mr Parubi. Russian newspapers turned things around and said the dispute was over the right to use the Russian language.

              which isn’t exactly playing into your narrative.

              Didn’t you, just some comments ago, talk about talking to actual people? I have three Ukrainian families living in neighbouring flats, having fled the war. One of them ethnically Russian, though the kids are refusing to speak the language.

              Yes, there had been grievances. Grievances so bad it justifies an invasion? Hell no, not just not the same ballpark, but not even the same galaxy. Moscow, OTOH, is checking all five points (one would suffice!) of the definition of genocide. It doesn’t surprise me, or their parents, in any way whatsoever that the kids are refusing to speak Russian, they’ve seen shit.

              • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
                17·
                1 year ago

                Remember how that law never went into effect and in fact regions have the right to have secondary official languages? Including Russian?

                Also, that it wasn’t a law furnishing new modes of repression but a law repealing the granting of rights to minority languages?

                I know what it was. The point here is not what it was but that it existed, what it did, and what environment it existed in.

                At every point up until now I’ve been told that this didn’t happen, just moments ago you called it a hallucination, and now you’re seamlessly transitioning as if that wasn’t the case.

                And maybe you should read more primary sources instead of random Anglo press articles.

                If I had linked to Russian language content we both know exactly what you would have said in response. This conversation has proceeded along the lines of “deny, obfuscate, admit but deny significance.” If I had given you a primary source, which would have had to be in the Russian language, then you’d have called it russian propaganda.

                The only thing I ever said was that the entire reason this separatism kicked off was because of the language law introduced by the fascists in the maidan coup/revolution. I am absolutely correct about that. Had that event not happened we wouldn’t be where we are today.

                Grievances so bad it justifies an invasion?

                I’ve never said that. I’m really not that interested in talking about the invasion itself anymore as it doesn’t help us end the war. I would prefer nobody were ever invaded, but that’s not the situation we have right now.

                • barsoapEnglish
                  5·
                  1 year ago

                  At every point up until now I’ve been told that this didn’t happen,

                  You were told that “outlawing Russian” didn’t happen. Which the 2014 thing didn’t even attempt to do. The only people claiming such things are characters like the Nazi you quoted as well as Vatniks.

                  If I had given you a primary source, which would have had to be in the Russian language, then you’d have called it russian propaganda.

                  Depends on where it’s from, Russia doesn’t have a monopoly on the language and before the invasion press freedom wasn’t completely dead in Russia. Still, finding sensible takes even among the Russian opposition would be difficult as liberal forces within Russia never really bothered to analyse Russian imperialism, being busy with battling corruption and authoritarianism. Random high-profile example: Navalny’s take on Crimea.

                  the language law introduced by the fascists in the maidan coup/revolution.

                  There were Nazis among the protestors, yes, but they were a tiny minority. The protests started over Viktor Yanukovych betraying an election promise of his: EU accession talks. They then quickly became quite bloody with Yanukovic sending snipers and passing this kind of shit.

                  When the government is shooting at you you don’t tend to question the deeper ideological stances of at least half-way decently organised people handing out riot shields to duck behind. Not really an opportune moment.

                  After Yanukovych’s impeachment (which was a bit iffy the Rada played fast+loose with procedure but they had the authority and the votes) an interim president and government was installed (by that very Rada, not protestors) and him fleeing to his masters in the Moscow, the law happened (or rather didn’t), then came new elections, both presidential and for the Rada, where right-wing parties of all ilk lost quite a number of votes. Oh, also, Russia invaded Crimea, Donbas, and Luhansk. There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen, and all that.

                  That “Separatism”, as in the founding of the “people’s republics” was kicked off by Russian green men collaborating with local criminals. Doing it like that isn’t too surprising Russia is practically a mafia state. Just because one happened after the other doesn’t mean that one is the cause for the other.

                  • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    1·
                    1 year ago

                    I have another interesting tidbit on the snipers thing:

                    https://archive.is/cjHkh

                    This is an interesting article from the BBC going into the many sus things about this event and painting the picture that the far right was likely involved. One of the most interesting things about it is that the bbc has deleted it, which is the first instance of sussy journalistic war censorship I’ve seen. The original no longer exists.

                  • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    14·
                    1 year ago

                    Navalny’s take on Crimea.

                    I couldn’t care less what this fascist’s take is, and I find it really sus that you admonished me on the mistake with whoever that golden dawn guy was but then refer to a fascist yourself while calling him a liberal.

                    There were Nazis among the protestors, yes, but they were a tiny minority. The protests started over Viktor Yanukovych betraying an election promise of his: EU accession talks. They then quickly became quite bloody with Yanukovic sending snipers and passing this kind of shit.

                    When the government is shooting at you you don’t tend to question the deeper ideological stances of at least half-way decently organised people handing out riot shields to duck behind. Not really an opportune moment.

                    A small group that functioned as a vanguard. And played the pivotal role in its success. This has been written about quite a lot. I assume you’re familiar with vanguardism I’ve seen you use enough terms here to think you’re a little above average in understanding of political ideologies.

                    The sniper thing is rather disputed, at least by my socialist friends in crimea. They claim this was performed by the right sector fascists. What the truth is of it though I’m not really sure, the research I’m familiar with seems rather inconclusive. Personally I think the picture is that there were probably both fascist and government shooters involved.

                    https://mronline.org/2021/12/11/the-maidan-massacre-in-ukraine/

                    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266855828_The_Snipers'_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

                    After Yanukovych’s impeachment (which was a bit iffy the Rada played fast+loose with procedure but they had the authority and the votes) an interim president and government was installed (by that very Rada, not protestors) and him fleeing to his masters in the Moscow, the law happened (or rather didn’t), then came new elections, both presidential and for the Rada, where right-wing parties of all ilk lost quite a number of votes. Oh, also, Russia invaded Crimea, Donbas, and Luhansk. There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen, and all that.

                    “Procedure” is whatever people will popularly accept in an event like this. You get to make it up as you go along and as long as the various factions willing to do violence will agree with it you’re good.

                    That “Separatism”, as in the founding of the “people’s republics” was kicked off by Russian green men collaborating with local criminals.

                    There’s some fuckery involved with Russia certainly but it’s not as simple as that. Some of it was a communist effort. I don’t know if it was you earlier in this thread but I did mention earlier that I have friends there that aren’t around anymore. Several communists that were involved were killed, either in mysterious circumstances or going missing. The communist party of the dpr also endorsed Alexander Zakharchenkov as he was ideologically beneficial to their goals but he was killed in a cafe bombing and pro-Russia leadership (Strelkov) conveniently took over. Ukraine was blamed for that bombing but I am personally convinced it was Russia that did it to align the balance of power in the emerging states with themselves. Infighting in the party (along with the murders and disappearances) then later led to its merger with the CPRF which further convinces me that they were involved in eliminating the various groups that sought independent interests.

    • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
      113·
      1 year ago

      Of course. Because that’s totally not something the FSB would do to sniff out partisans and shit. There’s a war going on in case you haven’t noticed and truth is always its first victim.

      This is just closed mindedness. You refuse to take on any new information, you have made up your mind what the situation is and utterly refuse to even consider listening to anyone with first hand experience.

      Neither was there prosecution nor was the Russian language banned. The Ukrainian army largely operates in Russian, FFS.

      No. This is just factually incorrect. The flashpoint that started the separatism was the repeal of the language laws that made Russian (and many others) one of the many state languages in these regions (majority russian ethnicity regions). This occurred in 2014 immediately following the Maidan coup/revolution.

      This law change by the new far right bandera supporting government was the final straw in a long line of things that had led up to it, and was what created popular support for violent separatism among the local populations. Many people saw it as existentially important to separate themselves from Ukraine as they believed the Bandera supporters sought to kill or deport them all.

      • barsoapEnglish
        7·
        1 year ago

        The flashpoint that started the separatism was the repeal of the language laws that made Russian (and many others) one of the many state languages in these regions (majority russian ethnicity regions).

        What you’re citing there is a question to the Commission, not a research paper. The guy posing that question? A Greek Nazi, becoming MEP on a Golden Dawn ticket. Here’s the answer:

        The Commission is not aware of any ban on use of minority languages in Ukraine. In February 2014, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine adopted a law, revoking the language policy law of 2012, which has however been effectively vetoed by the then Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov, and therefore has not entered into force.

        The law adopted in 2012, giving the local and regional authorities the right to determine regional languages in addition to Ukrainian for contacts with public bodies, has been largely positively assessed by the Venice Commission of the Council of Europe in its opinion. At the same time, the opinion noted: ‘the question remains whether, having regard to the specific situation in Ukraine, there are sufficient guarantees, in the current Draft Law, for the consolidation of the Ukrainian language as the sole State language, and of the role it has to play in the Ukrainian multilinguistic society.’

        Yes, the Ukrainian government has been actively trying to make Ukrainian the de facto, not just de jure, lingua franca of Ukraine, to halt secondary effects of Russification.

        I’m not even going to address anything else you said. A Tankie relying on hallucinations of a Nazi to make points, how fucking classic.

        Learn some research skills and source criticism and then maybe you’ll be able to contribute to discussions.

        • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
          14·
          1 year ago

          What you’re citing there is a question to the Commission, not a research paper. The guy posing that question? A Greek Nazi, becoming MEP on a Golden Dawn ticket. Here’s the answer:

          Yeah this was just pointed out to me. Which is why I went and dug out some other stuff instead, I’m not particularly fond of relying on that one and won’t be using it in future.

          A couple of western media articles discussing the split the existing language law was causing in the country:

          2000: Ukraine wages war on Russian language

          2012: Russian language debate splits Ukraine

          2012: Ukrainians(far right) protest against Russian language law

          2014(when the law actually occurred): Ukraine Revokes Linguistic Rights

          This last one is the most interesting, also 2014 from Time: Many Ukrainians Want Russia To Invade

          Within two days of taking power, the revolutionary leaders passed a bill revoking the rights of Ukraine’s regions to make Russian an official language alongside Ukrainian. That outraged the Russian-speaking half of the country, and the ban was quickly lifted. But the damage was done. With that one ill-considered piece of legislation, the new leaders had convinced millions of ethnic Russians that a wave of repression awaited them. So it was no surprise on Friday when a livid mob in Crimea attacked a liberal lawmaker who came to reason with them. Struggling to make his case over the screaming throng, Petro Poroshenko was chased back to his car amid cries of “fascist!”

          Is this article a hallucination too? This aggressive response is quite unnecessary. Have a more academic conversation.

          • barsoapEnglish
            5·
            1 year ago

            Yeah this was just pointed out to me.

            By me I just couldn’t let it stand so I called it out twice, but there’s no need to duplicate the whole thread.

            • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.worldEnglish
              13·
              1 year ago

              Oh lol we’re having the same conversation twice? I didn’t even notice I often don’t look at usernames. Sorry.