cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/mensliberation@lemmy.ca/t/623593
Harping on people to get married from up in the ivory tower fails to engage with reality of life in the dating trenches.
I’ve been on the dating apps for 3 years now, I’m male, and it isn’t a good time for guys either. While women get literally hundreds of likes a day, guys, its the polar opposite, maybe 1 or 2 matches a month. There may be some weight to the articles points about younger generation of males who lost their way, and aren’t keeping up with life. But I feel one major contributing factor to making online dating shittier and shittier is all dating apps mimicking tinder with the swipe left/right bullshit. Being forced to say Yay or Nay right then with the smallest amount of information about that person to make a judgement on, other then looks, that’s a recipe for incentivizing men to swipe Right on every single women, and then hope they get some matches back.
Mix into this toxic stew the fact that the most desirable men are in the top 10% of attractiveness, and those guys get a ton more matches then the bottom 90%. Those guys can be huge assholes and generally ruin it for everyone. The experience of a women on modern dating apps is just terrible, endless amounts of attention, low effort guys trying to get their dick wet ASAP and being blatant about that up front. It’s exhausting for women. For guys, it’s soul crushing, feeling worthless, retooling your profile pictures, your bio, in the hopes you’ll stand out.
Online dating was never great, but it got much worse when Match group acquired the vast majority of dating app companies, and then they all started following tinder’s toxic design. Also add a huge helping of design elements meant to squeeze more money out of lonely people. “Oh you want to know if your message was read, get read recipes for 2.99 for a pack of 5!”, “Get scene first, get premium!”.
Yeah, screw online dating, no wonder less people are getting married.
Here’s a great video by Kidology about Tinder:
It’s a machine designed by capitalism to make more money, not necessarily be effective. If it was effective at its job, it would make no money. I would love to see smarter people than me, make some good algorithm style dating match app, that just helps people find like people.
To give you a slight perspective on the multiple / hundreds of messages a day, imagine they’re 90% sleezoids and only 10% are probably decent men, getting flooded with heaps of messages then makes it the tiresome task of finding a needle in a haystack, exhausting work. I would argue that getting more messages isn’t a better place to be. If I had to choose, I wouldn’t choose that option.
Don’t get bitter, take the time to well round yourself, build yourself up a better version, that’s wisdom, anyway, and you’ll be happier inside a levelled up version of yourself, either way. And be patient with the women wading through the mud trying to get to you.
I can’t imagine how much wears you down to get an endless tide of shit guys. I’m not bitter, I’m doing A-okay, I’m happy with my self and happy with my life and would only want a relationship that adds to my life and I to hers. I appreciate the kind words! I’m keeping some dating apps active just in case I find a great match with good chemistry, but my periods of depression are behind me thankfully. But early on, it was rough, so I know what other guys are probably going through too.
No one says you need to spend a fortune on a wedding.
You can do it in your back yard for the price of admission.
If you’re with someone who can’t accept that then you’re with the wrong person.
Interesting article.
Regarding marriage: in my eyes, over here (Estonia) it’s a formality, not a commitment. Most children are born to unmarried couples. Legal benefits are few. Marriage might be important if partners have different citizenship. The obligation and right to care for their children comes independently of marriage. The chance to set up shared property rights is not an exclusive feature of marriage - civil partnership gives the same possibility.
So I wouldn’t focus on the formal, but the actual.
The actual seems to be that people seem to experience increased difficulty with finding relationships. Perhaps also maintaining them.
Part of this could be due to people having other priorities. When you have other priorities and searching for relationships would consume your limited reserves of time and patience, you save yourself from frustration and don’t look.
Part of this could be due to women being more independent. When you are independent and stumble on a partner whom you get disillusioned with, you leave them and won’t tolerate a frustrating relationship. The dynamic balance between people in relationships and people who are single might be shifted as a result of increased independence.
Part of this could be due to women and men being attracted to different world views, making them less compatible. Even being attracted to different hobbies, and having no common hobbies, can decrease the chances of finding someone. If society directs men and women to different trails in life, and these don’t cross often, could it result in reduced chances of relationships?
Part of this could be due to dating on the Internet. Ways of finding and evaluating potential partners have shifted. The number of relationships starting in real life has probably decreased, and the number starting on dating apps has probably increased. It seems more convenient and safer like that… but everyone knows: on the Internet, you can leave false appearances easier. So perhaps people spend their time breaking through proverbial walls with their heads, because they aren’t provided tools to find the right person. Dating apps, after all, are serving their shareholders first, and their goal is to earn money, not help people.
…but I’m not a sociologist, and not up-to-date on research. So the above are not facts, but wild guesses.
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For real the amount of men that think marriage is ownership creeps me out.
IMHO, there’s two sides to this coin: past and present. The following few paragraphs are from an Eastern European perspective, so it might vary with local history. I’ll write it regardless however. :)
The history of marriage over here - is that of passing down ownership of resources. For feudal lords and merchants, marriage was about passing down power and wealth - it was strictly regulated for them, and often quite an oppressive institution (we can guess which gender it was more oppressive for, and which gender was considered a resource).
For peasants, it was a bit loose. The church had its laws but knew well - peasants didn’t give a damn. They didn’t have much wealth or power to pass down to children, and in some times and lands, the only inheritance was serfdom or slavery. So peasants, ironically, while being unfree people, had more freedom in their relationships…
…but they were not model people, and had their quirks. Often enough, marriage was entered when pregnancy had started. Peasants wanted to be sure that a couple was fertile, and did the formalities when that was sure enough. Not so late as to get the church pissed off, but not when the guys in fancy robes said it must be done.
Among anarchists, knowing this history, it is not uncommon to shy away from marriage, considering it a bit freaky, a bit like taking church and state to the bedroom, where there ought be two people.
Regardless, I know anarchists who have married. Especially when they were from different lands.
To be 100 with you I only married so my bestie could get access to healthcare.
Wow, where in the world and how (without compromising anonymity or operational security :P ) can one get access to health care via marriage?
I worked for some big financial corporation. She was a dog groomer. By the time she was diagnosed she was $10k in debt. After we got married she got access to my healthcare and only then could she afford to get treatment.
Aha, insurance and the lack and weakness of it… damnedest system, smart move. :)
Once she told me I looked up men that stuck with relationships after diagnosis… And struggled to find anyone. Then I looked up support groups. Changing the locks after diagnosis, not picking them up from the hospital and blocking their numbers. Breaking up completely healthy relationships, over something they had no control over. Scared the shit out of me. We weren’t serious before that but I didn’t want her to have to go through that. Let alone not be able to afford treatment… That’s a whole other horror story…
This may be unpopular but the marraige model was never good for women in the west, and Im glad we are free of it.
We were expected to be live-in bang-maid-mothers. Women were lobotomized during the ‘golden 1950s’ that some (often conservative men) worship.
I think I am starting to prefer a model where I live together in groups with friends/ family for protection and support.
I’ll just leave this here.
I’m a male of 32 years old.
I have had a few relationships and my current one has lasted for longer than a year..
She said that it would be nice to experience getting wed at least one more time in her life.
I don’t plan on marriage though. I have never felt a need or an urge with anyone to do so. The idea of a beautiful ceremony is neat but…nah. Needs money I don’t have and I don’t think it brings any more bonuses to my happiness..
I’m content with what we have without this extra step.
(We also don’t plan on kids - if that has anything to do with marriage in the first place)They’re really gonna play the “men are shit” card? I mean come on.
Have you asked a woman what dating these days is like? There really are a lot of shit men.
These shit men are inattentive, either unemotional or emotionally unstable, irresponsible, unable to do household chores, and unwilling to properly take care of children.
The awful stories my wife tells me about before we started dating are astounding. I’m a man btw, and I know so many of these guys who became husbands and their wives are so frustrated with them.
Do we blame the men entirely? I don’t think we should. The gen X dads were incredibly hands off because their parents, the boomers, were super overbearing. Therefore, so many men were not taught properly how to be attentive spouses and fathers.
These shit men are inattentive, either unemotional or emotionally unstable, irresponsible, unable to do household chores, and unwilling to properly take care of children.
…
The gen X dads were incredibly hands off because their parents, the boomers, were super overbearing. Therefore, so many men were not taught properly how to be attentive spouses and fathers.
It’s not a recent thing, there have always been shut men - it’s a source of great debate in the family about how my grandfather ever wooed my grandmother (we blame her upbringing in a military family for her putting up with an emotionally unavailable man) and my parents were always mystified how a couple of the wives in their friendship/parenting circle had ever fallen for the husbands. I’m Gen X and how some of my male friends managed to get hitched is a mystery, some of them where they’re at least superficially charming are on their second divorces.
So the litany of woes in the article is a tale as old as time, it’s just that women don’t have to put it with it any more. It doesn’t appear that this has led to guys raising their game though.
Generally speaking, Millennials had Boomer parents whereas Gen X had Silent Generation parents. While obviously there are many exceptions, typically every other generation is related. Gen X had the Zoomers, and Millennials are currently churning out Alphas.
While I agree with the general sentiment that women are not interested in assholes and men are largely responsible themselves for their poor success, your list of flaws suggests that every single woman ever on the dating market provides these qualities, and should thus expect them in a partner. This isn’t the case at all. Why should a man be expected to be all the things when the average woman checks barely half your list?
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Ya but it would help a lot if you didn’t blame it on men. It’s a problem for both sexes.
There are a lot of shit awful women out there too. You’re not special. You’re not a gift from god. 😊. We’re all dealing with it.
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Ya I get it, the article is just about someone who is complaining that they can’t meet a decent guy.
I guess I just don’t understand the point tho, because I can just write an article too complaining about all the shitty women out there, and then write a title that indicates that the whole reason marriages are dwindling is because of women.
If you can’t meet a decent guy then chances are you are doing something wrong. That makes you the problem too. Maybe you hang out with the wrong crowd. Maybe you have poor judgement. Could be a lot of reasons, but pinning everything on “men suck” comes off as super disingenuous.
I am not taking it personally, but just pointing out the fact that it take two to tango, and if it’s not working out for you then MAYBE you need to spend a little extra time on yourself instead of jumping to the blame game. We all have a lot of trouble with self reflection.
I think this person gets a lot of negative reaction from their personality and they blame others for their failures. That’s how I read the article.
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Eye roll. You’re clueless and I feel bad for you. Keep playing that victim card. Now I know why you’re single.
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What about all the women calling men dumb or whatever insult you want to throw in there?
Why is it always one sided for you? Do you just prefer playing victim instead? I don’t get it.
It’s a problem for both sexes. I’m starting to think YOU are the problem.
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Yeah crazy how low-income single mothers would have negative opinions of the dating scene.
cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/mensliberation@lemmy.ca/tiny fishing Harping on people to get married from up in the ivory tower fails to engage with reality of life in the dating trenches. Loss of freedom, fear of costs, and changing ideas about marriage are the reasons why many young people have not considered getting married.
Fear of losing freedom, fear of costs, and changing concepts about marriage are the reasons why many young people have not considered getting married. The first date is for both parties to show off, women show off their beauty and skillfulness - men show off their strength and confidence.
