Twelve police were wounded on Saturday (17 June) in clashes with demonstrators in France’s Savoie department where a protest against a high speed rail project in the Alps turned violent, authorities said.
Why do demonstrators agains the high speed rail?
https://lessoulevementsdelaterre.org/blog/programme-de-la-saison-5
Pour que ce projet ne voit jamais la lumière au bout du Tunnel ! Depuis plus de 30 ans, un projet de chantier ferroviaire titanesque, impliquant le forage de 260 km de galeries à travers les Massifs Alpins, anime l’imaginaire mégalo et détraqué du consortium TELT, «Tunnel Euralpin Lyon Turin» allié de décisionnaires politiques «visionnaires» et de groupes tels que Vinci Bouygues ou Eiffage. Bien que le transport de marchandises stagne depuis 1994, que la ligne existante ne soit utilisée qu’à 20% de sa capacité de fret, TELT envisage de creuser 11 tunnels, dont le plus grand d’Europe, le «Tunnel de Base» de 57km. Et tout cela pour faire gagner aux voyageur.se.s et aux marchandises seulement 1h25 entre Paris et Milan. Une façon simple de s’assurer des décennies de chantiers juteux, propulsés par plus de 30 milliards d’argent public.
In this case there is already an existing railway line which is only used at 20% of its capacity. With this project you will end up sparing 1h25 on a Paris-Milan. Also they would be supposed to pay taxes so the government can destroy their mountain. It’s nonsense, it’s not answering a demand, it’s trying to create his own demand.
How I see it is that some people still don’t understand, (or don’t care) that we need to spare resource, not spend more. The french are fed up and are not afraid to show it.
Glad to see it’s not only Italians protesting against this /s
Seriously this is depressing, a high speed train connecting Milan to Lyon would be amazing and a huge step forward to train travel throughout Europe, but people just love their status quoPeople love their environment too. Do you want to leave next to a high speed train track? They don’t.
You can already do Milan Lyon by train. I can offer you this trip proposal:
16:10 Milano P Garibaldi
22:10 Lyon Part Dieu
There is one change at Chambery Challes Les Eaux, around 20h14
Price is around 70€ depending on conditions.
High speed rail doesn’t compete with normal rail, you have to compare it to flights.
- Normal rail 6 hours, from your example.
- Direct flight twice a day, flight 1hour, getting to/from airport another hour. Two flights a day, prices from 300 EUR.
- (Just for comparison, by car it’s also around 6 hours)
A lot of people pays the triple price for having 4 more hours for something else. So rail have to take this route in 2 hours to compete with flight.
This time of luxury is gone. You don’t need to spare 1h on an international rail trip, we are in a situation of crisis, not in a situation of “feelgood”. You don’t need the public to invest so much resources in this project while so many other railway projects are still necessary but dormant.
A lot of people pays the triple price
I’ll be brutally honest: fuck them.
Let them spend one more hour and let’s send this public money and workforce to remove trucks from the roads and replace it with rail. And if you need 1 more hour to do Paris Turin then so be it. Punch a pillow roll over the floor. In the meantime we transform the roads in the inner country.
Do keep in mind that I never had took an in-depth look at the project and all it involves. Generally speaking though I am strongly in favour of more railway infrastructure, and I find it funny that lots of people (at least in Italy) love to complain about projects such as new high speed rails but they very rarely complain about new highways for cars.
Also the entire point of high speed is to make it more convenient, for passengers as well as trade trains, which possibly might have beneficial side effects not immediately visible. (Using the same logic as you, I could argue: why should we build highways? Surely a 2 lane road is fine!)
Oh and to answer to your question, I wouldn’t mind living close to a railway track, as long as the isolation of the building is decent enough ;)
Do keep in mind that I never had took an in-depth look at the project and all it involves. Generally speaking though I am strongly in favour of more railway infrastructure, and I find it funny that lots of people (at least in Italy) love to complain about projects such as new high speed rails but they very rarely complain about new highways for cars.
So am I, but do it where it matters. International railway is not the future, international railway will be a lluxury, the future is local railway, where people made a habit of using cars. Everywhere you need to transport goods, then you need to transfor it with railway instead, because otherwise you will have trucks and pollution.
This project is an extravaganza of entrepreneurs who pretend to do something great while they just want to feast in public fundings.
Oh and to answer to your question, I wouldn’t mind living close to a railway track, as long as the isolation of the building is decent enough ;)
Why do you think those people are protesting for? They are protesting because they saw how it was made in other places in France and they don’t want to be the next people burned.
International railway is not the future, international railway will be a lluxury, the future is local railway
and
Everywhere you need to transport goods, then you need to transfor it with railway instead, because otherwise you will have trucks and pollution
Hold on. Are you an isolationist? Do you want member states in the EU to do less trade with each other and people to travel less inbetween member states?
I already said this in another post, but international trade of goods is perfectly fine. in this case there is already a line which is underused, at 20% usage. What we don’t want more of is international passengers traffic. This is a huge luxury and people need to get rid of the idea that traveling far is a given. No, it’s not. Not any more. It was, with the profusion of energy, but now it’s not any more.
I do want people to do less travel between states, because we cannot afford it on a carbon level, and train are still heavily propelled with coal electricity (41%,). We will need to trade metals between states for example, but the traffic of passengers will become a luxury that we will have to get rid of, or at least maintain, but certainly not expand with high speed trains. You can send your complains to the laws of physics, because I’m not enforcing anything, I’m just stating the reality that we need to think twice about how we spend our last resources. Just because people say “train, train” doesn’t mean it’s the right type of train in the right place. We are that deep into the crisis.
tldr: Sending people even faster from Paris to Turin is not a priority and doesn’t deserve neither the bigger tunnel in Europe nor 30B€. The priority is to remove trucks from the roads and rethink the railway in the inner country.
Yeah, that has zero chance of ever working. Its completely unrealistic, furthermore I’d argue that its a pro-fascist stance simply because by virtue of imposing those kind of restrictions on people and commerce will very likely lead to fascists taking power. I can easily see that happening.
I already said this in another post, but international trade of goods is perfectly fine. in this case there is already a line which is underused, at 20% usage.
For example in this case, the only way to achieve this is either 1) faster rail alternative that’s better than transporting via trucks (which you very explicitly do not want) or 2) state force via taxes on trucks/roads/fuel.
The moment you do the second options fascists, nazis, white supremacists and the rest of the filth will undoubtedly surge in the polls.
We’ve seen what happened with just a immigrant crisis.
This kind of move will not only cartoonishly fail to achieve any of its goals but it’ll put fascists in power.This is a huge luxury and people need to get rid of the idea that traveling far is a given. No, it’s not. Not any more. It was, with the profusion of energy, but now it’s not any more.
This won’t happen, climate change is not the type of thing where people notice its effects relatively immediately. And for that reason they’re not going to vote for the ones who wish to install draconian measures and greatly hamper the economy and all that suffering that comes with that.
“Fascist, nazi, white supremacists”… I’m not sure that you are debating seriously, /u/grus.
On top of that I see that you are subscribed to /m/shitposting, /m/unpopularopinion and /m/noncredibledefense.
I’m not interested anymore, I posted some source, read it or not, I’m out.
