• Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    12·
    11 months ago

    Israel is currently free to bomb Gaza! expert-shapiro

    kubrick-stare Hamas are trying to put an end to that freedom!

    The freedom to indiscriminately kill Palestinians is essential to Israel’s national identity and sense of freedom! gun-shapiro

    shapiro-poplar Therefore, Hamas are NOT freedom fighters!

    Checkmate, Commies! shapiro-gavel

  • sudoshakes@reddthat.comEnglish
    7·
    11 months ago

    Where do we draw the line between the two?

    Is there any line they could cross, any at all in the future, where the label changes in your mind?

    • Spuddaccino@reddthat.comEnglish
      221·
      11 months ago

      The problem with this line of thinking, as well as the point the OP’s meme makes, is that it’s drawing a line between the two in the first place, when in fact there can be significant overlap.

      A quick dictionary lookup yields this for terrorism: “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.” Note that “especially against civilians” doesn’t mean it has to be, just that civilians being involved makes it a stronger case.

      Now, you may have already spotted the issue, but here it is anyway: this is an incredibly broad definition. Laws don’t bind those in other states, so ANY act of violence or intimidation is unlawful.

      So…freedom fighters fight using violence, against the laws of the country that claims sovereignty over them… so they’re terrorists. Full stop. This doesn’t mean that we should or shouldn’t support them, it just means that the definition of terrorism is pretty useless.

        • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          31·
          11 months ago

          If you chop the heads off people who are not even Israeli, or torture infants in their beds; you are not supported due to the acts against people completely outside any who oppose you.

          Israel made that up while bombing hospitals. That being said, there were more secular, politically moderate non-fundamentalist organizations dedicated to Palestinian liberation, and Israel supported Hamas over those organizations in order to paint Palestinians as extremists and fundamentalists. Now that’s coming back to bite them in the ass. Turns out if you turn a city of 2 million into an open air prison and a concentration camp, and keep bombing their schools and hospitals, keep turning off their electricity and water, keep dumping your untreated sewage into their only open body of water, they will turn to militancy and fight you back, because the only other option is to be genocided. Try to keep up.

          You should read “The World’s Biggest Prison” by Ilan Pappe who is Israeli. He will tell you the truth about how his own government treats Palestinians. If you aren’t willing to listen to Palestinians, maybe you’re willing to listen to him?

          Israel is a genocidal settler-colonial apartheid state set up by the European and North American powers to colonize the middle east. Even early zionists like Theodor Herzl understood Israel in these explicitly settler-colonial terms.

        • TheCaconym [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          26·
          11 months ago

          If you chop the heads off people who are not even Israeli

          There is zero evidence that this did happen

          torture infants in their beds

          There is zero evidence that this did happen

          only because they want violent death to Jews

          That does not accurately describes Hamas’ motivations. The Palestinians had their land stolen from them, and are slowly being killed, over decades. They want that to stop.

          only because they want vengeance

          That does not accurately describe Israel’s motivations either; they don’t want vengeance, they want the land and the Palestinians gone

          Beyond the fact you seem to have a comic-book-level outlook of these events, you’re also putting on the same level a successful military operation that resulted in a comparatively small amount of civilian deaths as collateral victims (not to mention we still don’t have a clue of many of those Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF, but it’s definitely in the double digits at least) and an ongoing genocide, which is pretty disgusting

            • TheCaconym [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
              21·
              11 months ago

              I can’t open a single link you provided, they all ask me to install a shitty app in order to view the content. Can’t even preview the channel itself (contrary to most telegram channels), so there isn’t much to discuss here; but I’m fairly confident I can guess some of the videos you linked based on your inane descriptions though, I’ve watched the same; and for those I’m guessing at, at least, they definitely don’t show what you say they do

              The objective was to kill people, not achieve any sort of military outcome.

              If you think the resistance forces’ objective on October 7th was to “kill people randomly”, you’re a child. It was a carefully prepared military operation that specifically targeted key military bases as well as several illegal settlements to obtain hostages - historically the only way for those same forces to manage the liberation of hundreds of Palestinians being tortured (among other things) in Israeli jails. Hostages that, I might add, were by all accounts very well treated while in custody in Gaza.

              And nobody’s denying there were civilians deaths, by the way; collateral damage will happen in a war. And there are also Palestinians civilians that went into occupied territory and probably showed less restraint than the actual trained resistance forces; when you keep people in a giant concentration camp and the inmates suddenly escape that sort of thing will happen. If you want to point the finger at someone for these deaths, point it towards the Zionist regime and its insane racist project, they’re the one responsible for all of this.

              And again, and finally, we still don’t know how many Israeli civilians the joint Palestinian forces actually killed, because it has become clear since then that the IDF killed a lot of them as well that day.

            • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              13·
              11 months ago

              First of all, that comment needs CWs. Second of all, do you really expect people to believe some random Telegram channel called “Hamas Atrocities Documentation Center Report Oct 7”? sus fedposting

        • the_kid@hexbear.netEnglish
          19·
          11 months ago

          If you chop the heads off people who are not even Israeli, or torture infants in their beds

          none of these things happened

    • boredtortoiseEnglish
      3·
      11 months ago

      Fighting the oppressors is ok but causing harm to innocents isn’t

      • sudoshakes@reddthat.comEnglish
        2·
        11 months ago

        Ok… so by that definition, chopping up a Philippine national with knives, who happened to be working in Israel… is terrorism?

  • boog [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    6·
    11 months ago

    Terrorist is a political designation that has no clear definition. It is used as a catch-all term for undesirables as a way to commit war crimes indiscriminately.