- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
Americans are increasingly unlikely to believe that those who work hard will get ahead and that their children will be better off than they are, according to two recent polls.
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It’s not dying because it is already dead
It was never alive in the first place, it’s just a mean of giving some glimmer of false hope while the oligarchs continue being parasites.
I disagree, back in the 60s it was totally possible to find a decent paying job, have a couple of kids, buy a house to store them in, get a new car every few years, send your kids off to school, go on vacations and retire at an age old enough to enjoy some time with the grandkids. Now that really isn’t a reality for the average person.
When my dad bought a house in LA during the 70s, his car cost more than the house.
However, the car died after 2 years which apparently was normal. He then drove a 1977 Ford Ranger up north and that thing would barely start, ever.
It was, briefly, in postwar America.
If you were of the fair-skinned persuasion, maybe…
You’re right, but important to remember that 90% of America was white in 1960.
You don’t think any American generation did better than the previous one through work?
Some generations did better than previous ones due to economic conditions at the time, and this is especially true in the period between WWII and Reaganomics. Some individuals experience both hard work and success, but there are a great many hard working individuals who have no personal wealth to speak of.
As for working hard, (unless I miss your point) - it’s hardly new for older generations to accuse younger ones of not wanting to work.
Why qualify this with “through work?”
Because that’s part of “the American dream”?
Not really?
American Dream, ideal that the United States is a land of opportunity that allows the possibility of upward mobility, freedom, and equality for people of all classes who work hard and have the will to succeed.
How would one “work hard” without working?
Naw after WWII when half the men were dead, everyone had jobs, houses, and two women fawning over them. It was great, if only we had a way to kill off half the people so everyone could have twice as much.
Oh I thought they meant to die was the dream.
Who can afford to die in this economy?
You load 16 tons, what do ya get?
A written warning. Funking slackers loading less than 20.
I tie my piss bottle to my belt loop with a shoelace. My supervisor told me I have potential. Now I just need another shoelace.
The American dream has been dead for decades
For like 30-50 years depending how lucky you got
To be fair, it was barely even attainable by those born stateside in the mid-50s. It might’ve taken the whole thing a couple decades to truly die, but the hopium was laced thick among the children that came after. To this day, few American teens seem to grasp how deep the lie reaches… They’re so fucked.
But GUNS
Are just a toy that makes you think you are free.
“That’s why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”
- George Carlin
George Carlin was one of the greatest comedians ever.
a great philosopher. future humans, or maybe some alien race, will study the words of carlin the way we do socrates, plato, and aristotle.
I don’t think so. Most popular culture gets utterly annihilated by history. It’s a little unsettling how popular things can be and then absolutely forgotten.
Carlin had been pushed aside his entire career. That was what was so provocative about him. Someone who had a pulse on the heart beat of America but was operating completely in the background. He was so disillusioned by the end, an otherwise compassionate man, had basically decided that humanity was going to get what was coming to them and there was no amount of up front confrontation that could stop it.
I’d argue the random glimpses we see of Carlin online is the most notoriety Carlin has received in the last 20 years. Almost as like an, “I told you so” from beyond the grave.
The quote is accurate. But man am I tired of seeing it pop up in every thread related to American quality of living going down the shitter the past 30 years
I’m tired of its increasing relevance.
Fuck you got to it before me. I was gonna put that exact same quote.
Been dead since I’ve been alive and I’ve been around since the 80s.
Dead since Reagan at least lmao
“the American Dream — that if you work hard you’ll get ahead — still holds true.”
The fact that they continue to re-define what “The American Dream” actually is proves it died a long time ago.
Anyone else remember when the American dream was owning your own home with a white picket fence?
I don’t know the origin of the concept called “the American dream” but I’ve heard as well that it involved something like:
3 bedroom house
White picket fence
2.2 kids
1 dog
2 cars in the driveway
2 weeks of family vacation
One breadwinner and one homemaker
Available to anyone who can work at the factory 40 hours a week. Basically “The Wonder Years” TV series in a nutshell.
But the idea that if you work hard you’ll get ahead is ultimately the core of it. Some measurable, definable “hard work output” equals some obtainable reward, and harder work means even more reward. And really smart plus really hard work means even more opportunities are unlocked.
A lot of countries can’t offer this or don’t have a system of advancing through social glass ceilings or “castes”.
So in that way it at least seems like the US still offers this although more and more difficult to achieve, connections are more crucial, or figuring out some trick (a side gig) is needed.
I know way too many people with a college degree that can hardly afford the rent.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/american-dream.asp
No, that’s pretty much the key note of the original definition.
You, like many, just thought the cliche “house with two kids” depicted to show a character was living the Dream was the Dream, but the concept was always about opportunity being available for those willing to put in effort.
Although, obviously, since it was coined in 1931 “everyone” had some notable exceptions.
It’s hilarious that someone downvoted you. You pointed out the facts and fuck the facts when they contradict what I want to be true! It’s the same shit I see from conservatives (and I guess some others) when they insisted that “the definition of recession was changed!” because the short-hand oversimplified rule of thumb definition is all they knew, and when the facts show that their oversimplified view was not reality. . .well “downvote” them.
Nowadays, if you can afford the Venti latte instead of the Tall, you’ll be the envy of all your pals.
I think genx was the last generation to have a shot at the traditional path to th American dream. House, car(s), career that didn’t have to involve hopping all over the place, and maybe a college degree that was worth something. Yeah, there were wars, massive downturns in economy, 9/11, offshoring of labor and manufacturing in multiple waves, killing pensions in bankruptcies, and you could still save the world with recycling… but yet many still managed to hang on. Unlike following generations who each had the rug pulled out from them in multiple ways.
None of my genx friends would agree with you. They are all professional wage slaves and still can’t get a promotion because their 75 year old bosses refuse to retire.
Yes, I forgot to add that to the list. The boomers’ death grip on the high paying jobs. That is a factor.
Being GenX myself I’m pretty familiar with what we’ve been through, so I don’t need to argue about it. I was careful to use conditional language to indicate that not everyone got to follow the path I mentioned, just like today not all millennials or GenZ get hosed and some can follow the traditional path.
Dying?
That shits been dead since the 60’s at least. It had been thoroughly dragged through the streets and mutilated by the 80’s. It’s been dead long enough that it’s not even a rotting corpse anymore, it’s just bones in a pile slowly turning to dust.
In 30 years no one who was alive before it died will still be around and it will be a forgotten concept that lives on in the imagination of children as an echo of times past while they brave the streets as they’ve had to drop out of school and work alongside their parents to make sure the family has enough money to buy dinner.
Work alongside their grandparents we’ve only got 14 more years before social security runs out.
They’ll always keep it going. The Olds are an enormous voting bloc, and there’s never a shortage of 'em.
How is it we have 14 years until that dies out but somehow always plenty for the Pentagon?
Because one party is there to break everything and the other is to do just enough to prevent another party from happening
The break everything party turns into the take away the ball when they lose party when they aren’t in power. The other party is gonna have to stop playing by the bullshit norms that the other party ignores if they want to save this place.
The problem is they don’t seem to want to
I’ve never even wanted the American dream. I just want to stop being used and left out to dry.
I don’t want to be rich.
I want to not worry about my car breaking down and being unable to work or live because of it. I want to not worry about covering my mortgage and also having food in the fridge. I want to not worry about my 16 year old water heater failing on me and knowing that it’ll be, at minimum, months before I can replace it.
That’s all I want.
Anyone else knows it is long dead.
Define what you think the American Dream is.
Funnily enough there’s literally an accepted definition, as it was specifically coined by an author, so I’m curious if it matches up.
‘If you work hard you can get ahead, and your children’s lives will be better than your own’
This is a qualitative metric that may or may not be a reflection of the economy, but it sure seems like bad news. At least it’s bad news for those who aren’t coming from existing wealth or connections.
If most people believe that hard work - without needing a prior wealthy social circle - will not result in a commensurate lifestyle, they won’t be as willing to put in the time for education, be willing to grind their early career, or be willing to borrow money believing that tomorrow will surely be better. That can easily start a downward cycle where there are fewer and fewer opportunities.
Maybe that’s why I’ve heard rumors that more people are entering trade schools. Generally higher paying, shorter time to graduate, often unionized…
Many of them pay more than white collar work too.
Yeah, but on the flip side - this is the energy we can use to change things for the better
Debt only drives things under our insane system, there’s so many other options. People accepting that “hey, things won’t work out if we slave away for rich assholes” is the first step to coming up with a system that benefits everyone more (even the rich assholes… They’re not happy either)
It’s was a dream all the way long.
Dying? ROFL! That bitch died years ago.
Was it ever anything more than nationalistic gubbins?
Dying? I was not aware it was ever alive to begin with.
Is dying? That’s actually a really optimistic take. Nice work, all.
