See, the problem is that you and I disagree about the virtue of the Democratic Party. To me, they are an abusive bully who removes voices when it’s convenient (in their primaries), and then turns around and claims we must vote for them in order to preserve democracy. That rings hollow to those who have already had their voices muffled by the party itself. They’ve limited where I can express my voice to the very place that they have complete, unimpeachable control.
The only thing I have left is to express myself by refusing them a vote in the general. As you said, this is the unfortunate reality of the FPTP system. If they want my vote, they can implement a ranked choice system and I’ll happily put them on my list where they belong. Alternatively, they can run their primaries fairly and I’ll recognize the winner as legitimate.
I gave them my vote in 2016 literally only because of Trump and it nearly broke me. I gave them my vote in 2020 because of some specific promises the Biden campaign made that they then turned back on. In both cases the primaries were run in a specific way to engineer a win for their preferred candidate. Never explicitly against the rules because the party itself made the rules to allow it. And even then they were happy to break their charter’s promise to run primaries in a fair and even-handed way and argue in court they had no legal obligation to follow it.
In the case of Biden, I said in 2020 that that was my last free vote for the Democratic Party. They had 4 years to convince me they were willing to work with progressives, or else their vote from me would be contingent on them cleaning up their act. They have, on many occasions in the last 3 years, shown me that they have no intention of working in good faith with progressives.
I’m just done being abused. It’s time for them to actually follow their own empty words.
This is why the Democrats need to win, remove the Trump factor and try to either drag the Republican Party more to the center, or have the Democrats win in such a decisive way that it forces the Republicans to shift left. In the ideal world we don’t have FPTP, but all we can push for is a splitting of the Democrats so that folks like AOC and Biden aren’t considered part of the same party.
I don’t believe a Democratic win will push anyone left. The Republicans clearly have no interest in that, they’d rather get rid of democracy altogether. And the Democrats see any victory as a mandate for their centrism and any loss as a reason to move right.
If a Democratic win moves us left, why didn’t 2020 accomplish this? Why didn’t 2008 accomplish this? Why has every Democratic victory after FDR moved the party to the right?
And the solution is what? Vote Republican? Not vote (thereby essentially giving the Republicans a vote)? You can be damn sure that crazy racist uncle Bob isn’t going to skip voting for a wannabe-dictator
Voting third party, or if none are available that suit me, don’t vote for president. I’d still be filling out the rest of the ballot. I’d appear as an active voter who left the field blank, indicating my vote is up for grabs if someone actually earns it
That’s the only option available to me in the general that doesn’t implicitly endorse the current actions of the Democratic Party, actions that I believe are harmful to our country and will lead to our downfall just as surely as the explicit dismantling of the Republicans.
Can we stop this “a 3rd party vote is a vote for the opposition” nonsense? That completely ignores the entire reason for voting 3rd party and it’s mathematical bullshit. With Democratic votes on the left and Republican on the right, it is a 0/0 vote for each side. A Dem vote is a 1/0 vote and a Republican vote is a 0/1 vote. If you insist the two sides must add to one, then it’s a half vote for each side, 0.5/0.5.
The Dems have plenty of things they can do to earn my vote and they consistently choose not to do them. In response, I’m choosing not to give them my vote anymore. 2020 was the last time unless they can become a party that actually serves the people.
Results aren’t instant and we have moved left. Since 2016, Republicans have lost every single election. 2018, Dems gain the house removing the complete control R’s had in the house, senate and Executive. 2020, Trump loses his reelection (first time in like 20+ years that happens) D’s hold the house and gain a slime majority in the Senate. 2022, with a D president history shows D’s should lose seats in congress. D’s lose the house narrowly and gain seats in the senate, I think this the first time in 10ish years this happened.
When FDR was president, it was fine to be racist again minorities, be prejudiced against the LGBTQ+ community (as well as let them die of AIDS), and weed was bad. Those things have changed, and include the fact that every abortion restriction law has been denied by the voters of every state that has tried, including Kentucky.
The issue with the lack of a sharp turn left is that US politics doesn’t work that way. Actual movement is based on the mid point between both parties, and right now Republicans have been trying to move further and further right. In general shifts in politics are slow for the US, which is good for preventing bad things but not great for quickly encouraging the good. If R’s continue to screw up as they have, they will have to reevaluate their platform to stay relevant. Being homophobic, sexist and an ally of Nazis and white supremacists isn’t a winning ticket for a majority of voters.
Democrats winning seats doesn’t mean we’ve moved left. My point was the Democrats themselves have moved right. Pretty sharply around the Clinton administration, too.
They routinely show that they don’t understand we’re a Republic as well. It’s very clear that most of the politicians in DC are just the puppets of a private controlling entity. And they have been for decades.
Hi. So, your problem is that you didn’t get what you wanted, and now you’re going to throw a political temper tantrum and let the autocrat in. If gays and minorities are rounded up for concentration camps in the future, know that your letting ‘the perfect be the enemy of the good’ is why that happened. Hell, your posts on this very forum might be used to arrest and imprison you as a political subversive if Trump gets in, so you may well have skin in the game yourself. Something to think about.
No, my problem is that the Democratic party is corrupt, and continuing to prop it up will make the problem worse, not better.
I’m not letting perfect be the enemy of good. If the DNC can run fair primaries (which doesn’t mean my preferred candidate wins), I’ll recognize them as legitimate political contests. Until then, I’m simply tired of hearing “it’s not the right time” because it’s never the right time. If we keep waiting for the “right time,” then more people will die because we all refused to hold the Democratic Party responsible now.
And I do mean they are responsible. They gave us Trump very directly. They propped up his campaign to radicalize the right in order to shove an extraordinarily unpopular candidate through. That they now continue to use the same pied piper strategy only shows that they’ll continue to radicalize the right in order to coerce votes from people who don’t like them. Refusing to stand up to that makes you responsible for everything their pied pipers accomplish.
They’re not even “radicalizing” the Right. They’re simply forcing the narrative to rewrite the Overton Window and people are fucking Lemmings these days incapable of independent thought and analysis.
Even better, they’re radically targeting the Right (see: rosaries are now a sign of being an “extremist”) and constantly acting like they’re the good guys.
All of DC is beyond corrupt. The people behind them benefitting from it aren’t going to let it go either.
Trump had thay whole Drain The Swamp premise and that was never going to happen. Heck, from an uninvolved party, looks like they tangled him up and neutered him so he couldn’t. His son in law was a traitor, I’m sure the government not so subtly threatened to go after his properties and businesses, and like most people, he guaranteed wasn’t willing to lose everything in the attempt.
That’s why nothing will get better. People by and large are fat, dumb, happy, materialistic, hedonistic, selfish, and all manner of other pitiful traits, just as they’ve been programmed to be over the last half century. News, media, music, etc has effectively turned the entire country into soft people who will never actually resort to the necessary means to reclaim what this country was and their freedoms.
And the constant ops and attacks and broadcasting of how the government has railroaded people simply for thinking that way further demoralizes them.
The best example I can give is look how demonized Hitler is. But I bet 99.99% of anyone has never actually looked into the history. Never understood that he was Time Man of the Year because he was Germany’s savior from corrupt international powers. He brought about the greatest economic and national recovery in modern history. But all people know or believe is the narrative pushed about him.
See, the problem is that you and I disagree about the virtue of the Democratic Party. To me, they are an abusive bully who removes voices when it’s convenient (in their primaries), and then turns around and claims we must vote for them in order to preserve democracy. That rings hollow to those who have already had their voices muffled by the party itself. They’ve limited where I can express my voice to the very place that they have complete, unimpeachable control.
The only thing I have left is to express myself by refusing them a vote in the general. As you said, this is the unfortunate reality of the FPTP system. If they want my vote, they can implement a ranked choice system and I’ll happily put them on my list where they belong. Alternatively, they can run their primaries fairly and I’ll recognize the winner as legitimate.
I gave them my vote in 2016 literally only because of Trump and it nearly broke me. I gave them my vote in 2020 because of some specific promises the Biden campaign made that they then turned back on. In both cases the primaries were run in a specific way to engineer a win for their preferred candidate. Never explicitly against the rules because the party itself made the rules to allow it. And even then they were happy to break their charter’s promise to run primaries in a fair and even-handed way and argue in court they had no legal obligation to follow it.
In the case of Biden, I said in 2020 that that was my last free vote for the Democratic Party. They had 4 years to convince me they were willing to work with progressives, or else their vote from me would be contingent on them cleaning up their act. They have, on many occasions in the last 3 years, shown me that they have no intention of working in good faith with progressives.
I’m just done being abused. It’s time for them to actually follow their own empty words.
This is why the Democrats need to win, remove the Trump factor and try to either drag the Republican Party more to the center, or have the Democrats win in such a decisive way that it forces the Republicans to shift left. In the ideal world we don’t have FPTP, but all we can push for is a splitting of the Democrats so that folks like AOC and Biden aren’t considered part of the same party.
I don’t believe a Democratic win will push anyone left. The Republicans clearly have no interest in that, they’d rather get rid of democracy altogether. And the Democrats see any victory as a mandate for their centrism and any loss as a reason to move right.
If a Democratic win moves us left, why didn’t 2020 accomplish this? Why didn’t 2008 accomplish this? Why has every Democratic victory after FDR moved the party to the right?
To keep that ratchet spinning.
And the solution is what? Vote Republican? Not vote (thereby essentially giving the Republicans a vote)? You can be damn sure that crazy racist uncle Bob isn’t going to skip voting for a wannabe-dictator
We all know that if you don’t vote, they’ll vote for you and it definitely won’t be to pad republican numbers in almost all instances
Voting third party, or if none are available that suit me, don’t vote for president. I’d still be filling out the rest of the ballot. I’d appear as an active voter who left the field blank, indicating my vote is up for grabs if someone actually earns it
That’s the only option available to me in the general that doesn’t implicitly endorse the current actions of the Democratic Party, actions that I believe are harmful to our country and will lead to our downfall just as surely as the explicit dismantling of the Republicans.
Can we stop this “a 3rd party vote is a vote for the opposition” nonsense? That completely ignores the entire reason for voting 3rd party and it’s mathematical bullshit. With Democratic votes on the left and Republican on the right, it is a 0/0 vote for each side. A Dem vote is a 1/0 vote and a Republican vote is a 0/1 vote. If you insist the two sides must add to one, then it’s a half vote for each side, 0.5/0.5.
The Dems have plenty of things they can do to earn my vote and they consistently choose not to do them. In response, I’m choosing not to give them my vote anymore. 2020 was the last time unless they can become a party that actually serves the people.
Results aren’t instant and we have moved left. Since 2016, Republicans have lost every single election. 2018, Dems gain the house removing the complete control R’s had in the house, senate and Executive. 2020, Trump loses his reelection (first time in like 20+ years that happens) D’s hold the house and gain a slime majority in the Senate. 2022, with a D president history shows D’s should lose seats in congress. D’s lose the house narrowly and gain seats in the senate, I think this the first time in 10ish years this happened. When FDR was president, it was fine to be racist again minorities, be prejudiced against the LGBTQ+ community (as well as let them die of AIDS), and weed was bad. Those things have changed, and include the fact that every abortion restriction law has been denied by the voters of every state that has tried, including Kentucky. The issue with the lack of a sharp turn left is that US politics doesn’t work that way. Actual movement is based on the mid point between both parties, and right now Republicans have been trying to move further and further right. In general shifts in politics are slow for the US, which is good for preventing bad things but not great for quickly encouraging the good. If R’s continue to screw up as they have, they will have to reevaluate their platform to stay relevant. Being homophobic, sexist and an ally of Nazis and white supremacists isn’t a winning ticket for a majority of voters.
Democrats winning seats doesn’t mean we’ve moved left. My point was the Democrats themselves have moved right. Pretty sharply around the Clinton administration, too.
Lotta buzzwords and ignorance there. Good going NPC
Fuck that. The Left has lost its marbles. The average republican voter is already pretty damn centered.
“Preserve Democracy”
They routinely show that they don’t understand we’re a Republic as well. It’s very clear that most of the politicians in DC are just the puppets of a private controlling entity. And they have been for decades.
Hi. So, your problem is that you didn’t get what you wanted, and now you’re going to throw a political temper tantrum and let the autocrat in. If gays and minorities are rounded up for concentration camps in the future, know that your letting ‘the perfect be the enemy of the good’ is why that happened. Hell, your posts on this very forum might be used to arrest and imprison you as a political subversive if Trump gets in, so you may well have skin in the game yourself. Something to think about.
No, my problem is that the Democratic party is corrupt, and continuing to prop it up will make the problem worse, not better.
I’m not letting perfect be the enemy of good. If the DNC can run fair primaries (which doesn’t mean my preferred candidate wins), I’ll recognize them as legitimate political contests. Until then, I’m simply tired of hearing “it’s not the right time” because it’s never the right time. If we keep waiting for the “right time,” then more people will die because we all refused to hold the Democratic Party responsible now.
And I do mean they are responsible. They gave us Trump very directly. They propped up his campaign to radicalize the right in order to shove an extraordinarily unpopular candidate through. That they now continue to use the same pied piper strategy only shows that they’ll continue to radicalize the right in order to coerce votes from people who don’t like them. Refusing to stand up to that makes you responsible for everything their pied pipers accomplish.
They’re not even “radicalizing” the Right. They’re simply forcing the narrative to rewrite the Overton Window and people are fucking Lemmings these days incapable of independent thought and analysis.
Even better, they’re radically targeting the Right (see: rosaries are now a sign of being an “extremist”) and constantly acting like they’re the good guys.
All of DC is beyond corrupt. The people behind them benefitting from it aren’t going to let it go either.
Trump had thay whole Drain The Swamp premise and that was never going to happen. Heck, from an uninvolved party, looks like they tangled him up and neutered him so he couldn’t. His son in law was a traitor, I’m sure the government not so subtly threatened to go after his properties and businesses, and like most people, he guaranteed wasn’t willing to lose everything in the attempt.
That’s why nothing will get better. People by and large are fat, dumb, happy, materialistic, hedonistic, selfish, and all manner of other pitiful traits, just as they’ve been programmed to be over the last half century. News, media, music, etc has effectively turned the entire country into soft people who will never actually resort to the necessary means to reclaim what this country was and their freedoms.
And the constant ops and attacks and broadcasting of how the government has railroaded people simply for thinking that way further demoralizes them.
The best example I can give is look how demonized Hitler is. But I bet 99.99% of anyone has never actually looked into the history. Never understood that he was Time Man of the Year because he was Germany’s savior from corrupt international powers. He brought about the greatest economic and national recovery in modern history. But all people know or believe is the narrative pushed about him.