“Yes, organizing in the imperial core is pointless. You’re better off staying home and posting memes on Hexbear instead.” -
You know how I finally got involved in an org? I had a vision of the rest of my life. Spend my free time reading theory for the next 50 years or so. I could probably get pretty smart at this Marxism thing. Then I die. That big Marxist brain shuts off and I will have left the world not making even the slightest impact on it. Well, some people online knew I was a commie and some family members, but that’s it. I developed all this knowledge - devoted my life to it - and in the end it didn’t mean a thing. I couldn’t handle that, I had to do something.
You know why people like Zizek have such shit takes? I think it’s largely because he (and frankly, most Marxist academics) aren’t involved in even the slightest bit of real praxis. He would rather jerk off other Marxist philosophers with his pettifoggery bullshit than help some homeless folks down the street. Being a commie isn’t about having the right takes. It’s about changing the world (with the right takes). Being right on the internet, now THAT is pointless.
Faith without works is dead, comrades.
Yeah, of course, those of us in the imperial core have our work cut out for us. The conditions aren’t there right now. The conditions aren’t close to being there right now. But you know what, things can change on you fast. Maybe it’s all pointless but if you’re not involved and doing something, then you’ve already given up and we may as well just wait while this whole planet just cooks. And even if it is pointless, do it for yourself. Do it so you can feel that you’re at least trying and doing what you can.
People here whine and moan about DSA and PSL. I promise you, their chapters in your city aren’t anywhere near as bad as you’re probably afraid of. Yeah, sure, maybe some folks there will say things like “China is state capitalist”. But if that’s enough to keep you from organizing then I’m sorry, you’re definitely showing me you have never engaged with other leftists outside of this website. There’s a lot of opinions out there, and a lot of leftist IRL who have a lot of potential are gonna have some shitty takes when you meet them. WHY NOT BE THE ONE WHO HELPS THEM NOT BE SO SHIT?
Both orgs I mentioned are desperate for good, knowledgeable, passionate comrades. A lot of you here are more than capable of doing great things in an org. You would be shocked, if you put the work in, how willing people will be to follow your lead.
It’s important to find good orgs and not just put up with shitty libs ruining your opportunities for praxis. You can go from being a stay-at-home big brain to an infighting-and-pointless-electoralism lib if you’re not cognizant of your org and its weaknesses.
Step 1 is to join an org and begin doing work, including gaining organizing skills.
Step 2 is to either begin launching new campaigns yourself because you got lucky with your first choice of org or to instead join a better org so you can do better work.
Don’t underestimate just how toxic or useless some orgs can get! You might be surprised at how little headway you will make in some spaces where you do the leadership things (organizing, planning, logistics, socializing, chairing, hooking people up, teaching, etc) and can’t get anyone to move on key things like, “maybe don’t put all of your effort into failing to get some random person elected that is already 6 months late into declaring their candidacy” or “maybe you don’t need to put out a message condemning Hamas and both sides” or “maybe don’t be pro-cop”. I’ve seen or heard of all these things from very good organizers who moved on to better organizations. The issues above occurring in self-proclaimed socialist spaces, including some communist ones.
Consider also that step 1 may be hampered by a toxic or incompetent org. You may pick up bad habits or become complacent with failure or simply not be around anyone that can teach you good methods. You might even be in an org that actively quashes attempts to practice good methods because the folks around you think very highly of their own methods that never get results and believe it’s their goal in life to tell you what to do, lol. I’ve also seen this.
So my rec is to try the two steps I listed but know when to bail on a step 1 org that you’re not growing in.
This is great advice, I don’t actually disagree at all. You have to be smart, and there is a balance. Don’t walk away the first time someone doesn’t agree with you, but also know when to walk away if it’s gonna be hopeless.
on the other hand, there are a lot of orgs whose “praxis” is an utter dead end and squanders the potential of those passionate activists and end up burning them out after years of bashing their head against a wall with nothing to show for it. Their leadership of these orgs are often old heads who never got over the fact the cold war ended and love hearing themselves talk about “the good old days” when SDS “took over the campus” or just whoever had the most time on their hands and ran unopposed (usually the most online in the whole party too). If you do find an effective and active leader, more likely than not they’re an actual federal undercover who is so active because their ass is literally getting paid to be there and take notes on you. So you will spend your valuable time doing useless shit like trying to sell newspapers on the street corner (what fucking century is it?) or knocking on doors for your local “progressive” democrat who will immediately sell you all out anyway. Maybe you can co-opt a few protests somebody else organized, good work Lenin. And party discipline? yeah right. good luck getting people to show up to meetings with them also trying to manage their lives in hellworld, half the time the only thing keeping the org running consistently is because the leadership is all in some ridiculous clique/polycule that inevitably collapses in a shower of bitterness and maybe SA allegations that takes the whole org with them on the way out. Not every org deserves your respect, and moreover your energy, time, and money just because they call themselves communists.
Now not to be entirely cynical, there are definitely some notable exceptions. Ethnic identity orgs are some real disciplined heavy hitters in the American activist scene who know how to get shit done. Black Panthers, Brown Berets, AIM, hell look at groups like SJP causing congressional hearings right now. They’ve all learned valuable hard-won lessons from the white nationalist police state trying to roll them over, though if you’re a complete cumskin you’re probably going to stick out a little (a lot) trying to join one. DSA and PSL aren’t bad, it does really depend on the chapter it seems- it’s a good sign if they have more than 6 people in it and they aren’t all fucking eachother. Do not get into extremely online arguments about soviet agricultural policy, its annoying to everyone else and more importantly irrelevant to the current political struggle. Ironically anarchist groups tend to have their shit together more often because they don’t take themselves so fucking seriously like some trot or ML orgs do (who are nearly all completely irrelevant cranks and losers). FNB does real easy and good praxis and they have all been chill as hell. In reality if you are getting out to demonstrations in your locale you are probably going to eventually be meeting with other like minded orgs in your community, and you could and should be judging who has the most juice and invest your effort in them accordingly. rarely do they care about your “personal ideology” as long as you aren’t annoying about it and you are putting in work, everyone is desperate for more people like OP said.
So respect yourself and join orgs that respect you, its the people in them that matter and not whatever is on their pamphlet, we’re all just trying to fight against this rotting genocidal empire in our own ways. And until we get an honest to god revolutionary vanguard forming in this country I don’t think you should be afraid to walk away and stay away from an org that you feel is wasting your time or draining your fucking lifeforce. Left wing political organization is still very nascent and many of them will go the way of the Trudoviks (abandoned or absorbed into a more powerful party) once a legitimate class conscious proletarian force starts politically coalescing around whatever party (or whatever it will be called) in the future. You’ll know when you find some real comrades- they’ll earn your loyalty and you will earn theirs, and it will be beautiful. And that’s what will change the world.
(keep shitposting on hexbear in the meantime tho I need my slop)
A good sign is when the orgs have members who are also union reps etc etc, not because of entryism but because the party decided boosting local non party worker and activist orgs was the right thing to do.
There’s a reason a lot of organisations say you cant be member of a socialist org and that’s not because of entryism but because if you’re a committed and effective member of that org, people will start discussing your politics and where they can get them.
Zizek is by his own admission not a Marxist, he just talks about Marxism a lot. I think he says stupid shit because his existence is based on getting money from neoliberal media institutions, which means he can’t be radical in any useful sense. What he really believes is immaterial to that question.
“Yes, organizing in the imperial core is pointless. You’re better off staying home and posting memes on Hexbear instead.” -
You know how I finally got involved in an org? I had a vision of the rest of my life. Spend my free time reading theory for the next 50 years or so. I could probably get pretty smart at this Marxism thing. Then I die. That big Marxist brain shuts off and I will have left the world not making even the slightest impact on it. Well, some people online knew I was a commie and some family members, but that’s it. I developed all this knowledge - devoted my life to it - and in the end it didn’t mean a thing. I couldn’t handle that, I had to do something.
You know why people like Zizek have such shit takes? I think it’s largely because he (and frankly, most Marxist academics) aren’t involved in even the slightest bit of real praxis. He would rather jerk off other Marxist philosophers with his pettifoggery bullshit than help some homeless folks down the street. Being a commie isn’t about having the right takes. It’s about changing the world (with the right takes). Being right on the internet, now THAT is pointless.
Faith without works is dead, comrades.
Yeah, of course, those of us in the imperial core have our work cut out for us. The conditions aren’t there right now. The conditions aren’t close to being there right now. But you know what, things can change on you fast. Maybe it’s all pointless but if you’re not involved and doing something, then you’ve already given up and we may as well just wait while this whole planet just cooks. And even if it is pointless, do it for yourself. Do it so you can feel that you’re at least trying and doing what you can.
People here whine and moan about DSA and PSL. I promise you, their chapters in your city aren’t anywhere near as bad as you’re probably afraid of. Yeah, sure, maybe some folks there will say things like “China is state capitalist”. But if that’s enough to keep you from organizing then I’m sorry, you’re definitely showing me you have never engaged with other leftists outside of this website. There’s a lot of opinions out there, and a lot of leftist IRL who have a lot of potential are gonna have some shitty takes when you meet them. WHY NOT BE THE ONE WHO HELPS THEM NOT BE SO SHIT?
Both orgs I mentioned are desperate for good, knowledgeable, passionate comrades. A lot of you here are more than capable of doing great things in an org. You would be shocked, if you put the work in, how willing people will be to follow your lead.
It’s important to find good orgs and not just put up with shitty libs ruining your opportunities for praxis. You can go from being a stay-at-home big brain to an infighting-and-pointless-electoralism lib if you’re not cognizant of your org and its weaknesses.
Step 1 is to join an org and begin doing work, including gaining organizing skills.
Step 2 is to either begin launching new campaigns yourself because you got lucky with your first choice of org or to instead join a better org so you can do better work.
Don’t underestimate just how toxic or useless some orgs can get! You might be surprised at how little headway you will make in some spaces where you do the leadership things (organizing, planning, logistics, socializing, chairing, hooking people up, teaching, etc) and can’t get anyone to move on key things like, “maybe don’t put all of your effort into failing to get some random person elected that is already 6 months late into declaring their candidacy” or “maybe you don’t need to put out a message condemning Hamas and both sides” or “maybe don’t be pro-cop”. I’ve seen or heard of all these things from very good organizers who moved on to better organizations. The issues above occurring in self-proclaimed socialist spaces, including some communist ones.
Consider also that step 1 may be hampered by a toxic or incompetent org. You may pick up bad habits or become complacent with failure or simply not be around anyone that can teach you good methods. You might even be in an org that actively quashes attempts to practice good methods because the folks around you think very highly of their own methods that never get results and believe it’s their goal in life to tell you what to do, lol. I’ve also seen this.
So my rec is to try the two steps I listed but know when to bail on a step 1 org that you’re not growing in.
This is great advice, I don’t actually disagree at all. You have to be smart, and there is a balance. Don’t walk away the first time someone doesn’t agree with you, but also know when to walk away if it’s gonna be hopeless.
on the other hand, there are a lot of orgs whose “praxis” is an utter dead end and squanders the potential of those passionate activists and end up burning them out after years of bashing their head against a wall with nothing to show for it. Their leadership of these orgs are often old heads who never got over the fact the cold war ended and love hearing themselves talk about “the good old days” when SDS “took over the campus” or just whoever had the most time on their hands and ran unopposed (usually the most online in the whole party too). If you do find an effective and active leader, more likely than not they’re an actual federal undercover who is so active because their ass is literally getting paid to be there and take notes on you. So you will spend your valuable time doing useless shit like trying to sell newspapers on the street corner (what fucking century is it?) or knocking on doors for your local “progressive” democrat who will immediately sell you all out anyway. Maybe you can co-opt a few protests somebody else organized, good work Lenin. And party discipline? yeah right. good luck getting people to show up to meetings with them also trying to manage their lives in hellworld, half the time the only thing keeping the org running consistently is because the leadership is all in some ridiculous clique/polycule that inevitably collapses in a shower of bitterness and maybe SA allegations that takes the whole org with them on the way out. Not every org deserves your respect, and moreover your energy, time, and money just because they call themselves communists.
Now not to be entirely cynical, there are definitely some notable exceptions. Ethnic identity orgs are some real disciplined heavy hitters in the American activist scene who know how to get shit done. Black Panthers, Brown Berets, AIM, hell look at groups like SJP causing congressional hearings right now. They’ve all learned valuable hard-won lessons from the white nationalist police state trying to roll them over, though if you’re a complete cumskin you’re probably going to stick out a little (a lot) trying to join one. DSA and PSL aren’t bad, it does really depend on the chapter it seems- it’s a good sign if they have more than 6 people in it and they aren’t all fucking eachother. Do not get into extremely online arguments about soviet agricultural policy, its annoying to everyone else and more importantly irrelevant to the current political struggle. Ironically anarchist groups tend to have their shit together more often because they don’t take themselves so fucking seriously like some trot or ML orgs do (who are nearly all completely irrelevant cranks and losers). FNB does real easy and good praxis and they have all been chill as hell. In reality if you are getting out to demonstrations in your locale you are probably going to eventually be meeting with other like minded orgs in your community, and you could and should be judging who has the most juice and invest your effort in them accordingly. rarely do they care about your “personal ideology” as long as you aren’t annoying about it and you are putting in work, everyone is desperate for more people like OP said.
So respect yourself and join orgs that respect you, its the people in them that matter and not whatever is on their pamphlet, we’re all just trying to fight against this rotting genocidal empire in our own ways. And until we get an honest to god revolutionary vanguard forming in this country I don’t think you should be afraid to walk away and stay away from an org that you feel is wasting your time or draining your fucking lifeforce. Left wing political organization is still very nascent and many of them will go the way of the Trudoviks (abandoned or absorbed into a more powerful party) once a legitimate class conscious proletarian force starts politically coalescing around whatever party (or whatever it will be called) in the future. You’ll know when you find some real comrades- they’ll earn your loyalty and you will earn theirs, and it will be beautiful. And that’s what will change the world.
(keep shitposting on hexbear in the meantime tho I need my slop)
A good sign is when the orgs have members who are also union reps etc etc, not because of entryism but because the party decided boosting local non party worker and activist orgs was the right thing to do.
There’s a reason a lot of organisations say you cant be member of a socialist org and that’s not because of entryism but because if you’re a committed and effective member of that org, people will start discussing your politics and where they can get them.
Zizek is by his own admission not a Marxist, he just talks about Marxism a lot. I think he says stupid shit because his existence is based on getting money from neoliberal media institutions, which means he can’t be radical in any useful sense. What he really believes is immaterial to that question.
GOOD post
They totally are sometimes tho
“me, me, me” typical millennial smh
“I live in [insert city]” oh yeah that chapter is infamously bad haha