That’s really some insight into why so many people are walking around unhappy. A lot of people have gotten married and even had children because that’s what they’re “supposed to” do. Same thing with how much emphasis is placed on sexual concepts like “losing your virginity” and shit like that. Like it’s supposed to be this big momentous occasion, and if you don’t do it soon enough, then something’s wrong with you. Like sometimes I think about the ignorant shit asexual people must be exposed to on a regular basis.
And then there’s the other extreme as well. My husband and I got married because it’s something we legitimately wanted, and marriage is a custom that we never thought we could experience as a gay couple. I think that makes us value it more. It’s not something we were “supposed to” do, but something we really wanted, and that was after five years of co-habitating.
I’ve had people lash out at me because they interpret our marriage as some statement that monogamy is the only valid relationship or that we’re dismissing the discrimination that poly people face or something, and such is not the case at all. Our marriage is a personal choice for us, and I’d be the first one to say it’s not for everyone. Us being married isn’t some grand statement that you should be, too.
I wish we all could get away from this black-and-white idea that everything must be either one way or the other. There are so many ways a relationship might look, and there are also people who are perfectly fine not being in any sort of relationship, and this is all okay.
And on a related note, I wish we had more places and events that weren’t centered around the “couple” or “the family,” where it’s okay to just show up as a single person and have fun. Maybe it’s just because I live in a conservative area, but I feel like a lot of things are planned around the idea of a family, and people who don’t fit the norm really don’t have much to participate in. Like, there are things for people who are still in college, but after that there aren’t too many options. I talk to my city council rep about this a lot.
Sorry, that turned into a damn sermon. I didn’t expect to write so much lol
On my original point about “stages”, the part that really got me thinking was that the person who designed that questionnaire probably didn’t even give it a second glance. They just wrote it, and it felt fine, because to them it seemed like a normal way of thinking.
Same to your point about there being few events that aren’t targetted at couples and families. When people are in a heteronormtive couple or a family, then they won’t even notice how the whole world seems to be set up in a way that is tailored just for them. It’s perfect for their needs, so why would they see anything deficient with it?
One of the examples I use to try to get people to think about things like this is how many of my city’s parks are designed, with the only benches being in places that face childrens’ play areas, the implication being that the only reason an adult should use the park is if they have children to watch.
Yet, there are wide open areas where we could put seating where adults who come on their own could feel welcome, where we could make them more accessible for people with disabilities, etc.
There are of course many bigger problems than just parks, but I feel like if I start small with an example that is easy to understand, maybe people will start to think? And maybe there are things I haven’t thought about as well, because I too can have tunnel vision.
The quiet but ever-present whisper of “this place is not for you, you are not welcome here”
A lot of that can be helped by design, but a lot is purely cultural, and driven by perceptions of what others think - or what we believe they think. In Japan for example I always saw loads of people eating out alone in restaurants, it’s just a normal thing to do. But in the west less so. Like the societal perception of the whole point of eating out is to do it with someone. Not just because you want some restaurant food.
So a lot can be overcome just by learning to not give a fuck.
It does give a peek into how other groups must feel though, like those with physical disabilities, as if the world is hostile by design. Or even worse, just hostile by omission because nobody remembered to think about you. And it doesn’t need to be. But it is.
Yeah a lot of these things are so baked in that it might seem hopeless that it can ever change. Not giving a fuck helps on a personal level, but that’s easier said than done for a lot of people. In any case, even if we can’t fix people’s minds, we can still correct things like designs to try to send the message that at least some of us are considerate and accommodating. Of course, some people get angry and lash out when we do make even small minute changes, such as the anti-“woke” people upon seeing a LGBT+ person in media.
I feel personally attacked by your first paragraph 😂 my parents having got married and had kids because they’re “supposed to” then promptly split up and were more concerned with being known as parents than actually being them, and also being an asexual constantly exposed to ignorant shit (and worse). I guess it’s nice to be seen? lol
I also agree with the rest of it, I shared this the other day, I think it relates…
Oh, this is really good! I like this approach. I’m going to share this with my discord pals.
I have no doubt that there are ways I still contribute to the “Imperialist White Supremacist Capitalist Heteronormative Ableist Theistic Patriarchies.” After all, how can I not? I grew up in it, immersed in it. I like the idea of sparking people’s curiosity to open up a discussion. I think these reflections are so important to have.
exactly, we all have, and still are. To the point where internalised and lateral bigotry are also a thing (again in service of the Imperialist White Supremacist Capitalist Heteronormative Ableist Theistic Patriarchy). There is so much to unlearn and it’s ongoing work, the end point being to abolish those systems, but to also stay vigilant that they never return (by nurturing community, solidarity, and justice), so it never actually stops. Unfortunately many people are comfortable enough with the status quo that they aren’t willing to take that kind of commitment on (especially one that involves a significant amount of self reflection and discomfort of realisation). Another feature, not a bug…
I’m poly. My gf and I have been together for almost 10 years and just had a baby last year. It’s been grand, and still going strong, and still feel no reason to get married, so we aren’t going to. It took several years for our families to realize that wasn’t a phase, and we’re not going to change our minds. They’ve seen by our example that you don’t need to be married to be in a committed, loving, and trusting relationship. I think that has also helped open their eyes to new possibilities in other ways, like maybe monogamy isn’t the only way to live a happy life, like they have always been told.
I’m not saying this to contradict you. I don’t have any problems with people who want to live a monogamous life. It’s just not for me. I wish more people could accept that everyone has a different definition of happiness and fulfillment and stop trying to force their prescription onto others.
That’s really some insight into why so many people are walking around unhappy. A lot of people have gotten married and even had children because that’s what they’re “supposed to” do. Same thing with how much emphasis is placed on sexual concepts like “losing your virginity” and shit like that. Like it’s supposed to be this big momentous occasion, and if you don’t do it soon enough, then something’s wrong with you. Like sometimes I think about the ignorant shit asexual people must be exposed to on a regular basis.
And then there’s the other extreme as well. My husband and I got married because it’s something we legitimately wanted, and marriage is a custom that we never thought we could experience as a gay couple. I think that makes us value it more. It’s not something we were “supposed to” do, but something we really wanted, and that was after five years of co-habitating.
I’ve had people lash out at me because they interpret our marriage as some statement that monogamy is the only valid relationship or that we’re dismissing the discrimination that poly people face or something, and such is not the case at all. Our marriage is a personal choice for us, and I’d be the first one to say it’s not for everyone. Us being married isn’t some grand statement that you should be, too.
I wish we all could get away from this black-and-white idea that everything must be either one way or the other. There are so many ways a relationship might look, and there are also people who are perfectly fine not being in any sort of relationship, and this is all okay.
And on a related note, I wish we had more places and events that weren’t centered around the “couple” or “the family,” where it’s okay to just show up as a single person and have fun. Maybe it’s just because I live in a conservative area, but I feel like a lot of things are planned around the idea of a family, and people who don’t fit the norm really don’t have much to participate in. Like, there are things for people who are still in college, but after that there aren’t too many options. I talk to my city council rep about this a lot.
Sorry, that turned into a damn sermon. I didn’t expect to write so much lol
It’s a good sermon lol.
On my original point about “stages”, the part that really got me thinking was that the person who designed that questionnaire probably didn’t even give it a second glance. They just wrote it, and it felt fine, because to them it seemed like a normal way of thinking.
Same to your point about there being few events that aren’t targetted at couples and families. When people are in a heteronormtive couple or a family, then they won’t even notice how the whole world seems to be set up in a way that is tailored just for them. It’s perfect for their needs, so why would they see anything deficient with it?
One of the examples I use to try to get people to think about things like this is how many of my city’s parks are designed, with the only benches being in places that face childrens’ play areas, the implication being that the only reason an adult should use the park is if they have children to watch.
Yet, there are wide open areas where we could put seating where adults who come on their own could feel welcome, where we could make them more accessible for people with disabilities, etc.
There are of course many bigger problems than just parks, but I feel like if I start small with an example that is easy to understand, maybe people will start to think? And maybe there are things I haven’t thought about as well, because I too can have tunnel vision.
The quiet but ever-present whisper of “this place is not for you, you are not welcome here”
A lot of that can be helped by design, but a lot is purely cultural, and driven by perceptions of what others think - or what we believe they think. In Japan for example I always saw loads of people eating out alone in restaurants, it’s just a normal thing to do. But in the west less so. Like the societal perception of the whole point of eating out is to do it with someone. Not just because you want some restaurant food.
So a lot can be overcome just by learning to not give a fuck.
It does give a peek into how other groups must feel though, like those with physical disabilities, as if the world is hostile by design. Or even worse, just hostile by omission because nobody remembered to think about you. And it doesn’t need to be. But it is.
Yeah a lot of these things are so baked in that it might seem hopeless that it can ever change. Not giving a fuck helps on a personal level, but that’s easier said than done for a lot of people. In any case, even if we can’t fix people’s minds, we can still correct things like designs to try to send the message that at least some of us are considerate and accommodating. Of course, some people get angry and lash out when we do make even small minute changes, such as the anti-“woke” people upon seeing a LGBT+ person in media.
I feel personally attacked by your first paragraph 😂 my parents having got married and had kids because they’re “supposed to” then promptly split up and were more concerned with being known as parents than actually being them, and also being an asexual constantly exposed to ignorant shit (and worse). I guess it’s nice to be seen? lol
I also agree with the rest of it, I shared this the other day, I think it relates…
Oh, this is really good! I like this approach. I’m going to share this with my discord pals.
I have no doubt that there are ways I still contribute to the “Imperialist White Supremacist Capitalist Heteronormative Ableist Theistic Patriarchies.” After all, how can I not? I grew up in it, immersed in it. I like the idea of sparking people’s curiosity to open up a discussion. I think these reflections are so important to have.
exactly, we all have, and still are. To the point where internalised and lateral bigotry are also a thing (again in service of the Imperialist White Supremacist Capitalist Heteronormative Ableist Theistic Patriarchy). There is so much to unlearn and it’s ongoing work, the end point being to abolish those systems, but to also stay vigilant that they never return (by nurturing community, solidarity, and justice), so it never actually stops. Unfortunately many people are comfortable enough with the status quo that they aren’t willing to take that kind of commitment on (especially one that involves a significant amount of self reflection and discomfort of realisation). Another feature, not a bug…
I’m poly. My gf and I have been together for almost 10 years and just had a baby last year. It’s been grand, and still going strong, and still feel no reason to get married, so we aren’t going to. It took several years for our families to realize that wasn’t a phase, and we’re not going to change our minds. They’ve seen by our example that you don’t need to be married to be in a committed, loving, and trusting relationship. I think that has also helped open their eyes to new possibilities in other ways, like maybe monogamy isn’t the only way to live a happy life, like they have always been told.
I’m not saying this to contradict you. I don’t have any problems with people who want to live a monogamous life. It’s just not for me. I wish more people could accept that everyone has a different definition of happiness and fulfillment and stop trying to force their prescription onto others.
This is exactly what I’m talking about! I’m so happy for you!