• sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf
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    1 year ago

    Was literally discussing this last night. China built a whole high speed rail network across its country for £300 billion and we’re £100 billion in and don’t even have a single train available. It’s actually insane.

    • Big_Twerp@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      The land cost alone for hs2 runs into the billions, it’s just very expensive to do.

      • sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf
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        1 year ago

        Do you believe the land costs in France, Spain, Germany, China and Japan weren’t expensive?

        • Maestro@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          China is not. The CCP can just seize the land and force you to accept a pittance in compensation.

          • sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf
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            1 year ago

            I genuinely can’t continue this conversation in good conscience given the fact that I don’t have sources. I can only go off of some YouTube documentaries I watched once upon a time where the government made a valuation on some land, sent in some archeologists and rehoused residents taking them rural living conditions with an outhouse to newer houses with toilets. In each case I saw the government deemed the projects more valuable than the people’s land/houses and time has proven them right as they have high speed rail and economic growth in all areas the rail network extends to and beyond.

        • Big_Twerp@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          You only mentioned china, where they don’t report on land costs because all land is state owned but yes I do believe land compensation is much less in china, not least because HS2 land compensation is significantly above market rate. Also; an authoritarian regime with only superficial regard for the health and well-being of their workers, that are paid almost nothing is certain to be cheaper. Suggesting otherwise is banal.

          Edit to add Troll alert.

    • tinned_tomatoes@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      That’s not really comparable. China bulldozes through land with little regard for the societal or environmental impact. The UK is a place of natural beauty and has laws against doing that. It’s right that we have proper surveys and planning permissions needed for this sort of thing, in my opinion!

      • AlpacaChariot@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Not sure why people are downvoting you, you’re right. Checks and balances cost money, and in broad terms we’re right to have those checks and balances. Maybe we need to reduce the burden slightly but our approach isn’t totally wrong.

      • mackwinston@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        Even the chaotic Spanish have managed to build a decent high speed rail network. While they don’t have the population density of the south east of England, they seem to be much more organised. Perhaps it’s really Britain that’s chaotic, certainly when it comes to infrastructure projects that aren’t for cars?

        • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Spain is basically empty outside of the larger cities, and property prices are often very low, so it is different.

          The Netherlands is perhaps a better example. Very high population density, technical challenges due to a lot of reclaimed land, high property prices.

          If they can manage it…

                • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Instead of saying “Valencia or Murcia”

                  Erm… Valencia is the third largest city in Spain.

                  Here’s a perfectly nice flat in the centre of Madrid, no renovation required, less than 100k, near a metro station, 15 minutes to the centre of Madrid:

                  https://www.idealista.com/inmueble/97370404/

                  I look forward to you finding me a similar flat in the middle of London.

                  why don’t you go have a look where people there actually want to live, especially all the British “expats”, like say, Benidorm?

                  Because most Spanish people don’t live in a small tourist trap, and don’t want to live in a small tourist trap, just because it happens to be popular with foreigners.

                  Also, when building a rail network, it’s unlikely that you’ll have to build most of it in fucking Benidorm. LOL

        • Arghhh@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Not defending anyone’s position, but even Italy managed to build one. I think costs were around 30+ billions.

      • sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf
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        1 year ago

        I don’t even know what to say to this. You have inherent biases and that’s fair, but you should try and address them internally rather than just posting them. To suggest that China doesn’t do proper surveys and just bulldozes through land without regard for societal or environmental impact sounds racist AF.

        France has 3000 kilometres of high speed rail compared to our 100.

        • Big_Twerp@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          I’ve worked as a civil engineering consultant in china, comparing how the deliver a major rail project to here in the uk is frankly moronic. It isn’t bias, it’s fact

          • sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf
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            1 year ago

            Well considering they’ve actually delivered their rail projects 🤷🏾‍♂️