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The problem with being up front is that lots of people are fucking nuts and can’t handle rejection like adults. This can be a bad situation for women since they are often at a physical disadvantage vs. men, so I don’t blame them for protecting themselves.
Funny picture though.
Realistically, with the way that GSR (gossiping shaming and rallying) which is the female form of aggression has become prevalent, it’s having a big effect on dating in general, and it’s going to have long term effects on the human race. 45% of men between 18-25 have never approached a woman in the real world. Now you might go “good, we don’t want to be approached”, and fair enough, but there’s consequences. The remaining 55% are going to be less agreeable, less nice people than those 45% who listened. Now you might be wondering what GSR has to do with any of this, well in this postmodern world of ours, instead of just saying “sorry I’m not interested” some women will take it to social media, and suddenly millions of women could know that you just struck out. That’s a pretty big risk if it does happen, and all it takes is a threat to have that chilling effect.
So by default, we’re already selecting for men who are more aggressive, less agreeable, and considerably more risk tolerant. Most of those guys are going to be not very good guys to date. Of the remainder, we know from data like the okcupid study that the top 1% of men in terms of attractiveness are going to do just fine wherever they go, especially online dating. Assuming an even distribution, that means that about 0.45% of good guys will be doing fine based on attractiveness alone.
So you’ve got 55% of the more loutish men, and 0.45% of super attractive good guys (and yes I know I’m making some assumptions about that 45%, but pretty much all of this is predicated on some level of assumption), so it really is like looking like playing a lottery for young women.
Now in the past, we would have taught that other 45%, how to participate while still being prosocial, but in between constant societal messaging saying that women don’t want to be approached ever and the threat of GSR, many of those men just end up outside of the dating pool. And we see this in terms of plummeting amounts of men who have had sex, plummeting amounts of men who have been on dates, plummeting amounts of men who are getting married.
I’m lucky, I’ve been married for 15 years, and while I had to deal with some local gsr, it wasn’t the sort of all encompassing thing that it became in the last decade. But the one thing that I definitely believe is that the way things are right now is leading to the worst possible outcomes for everyone. A lot of those 45% of men are exactly the sort of men who some of those 77% of women who want to be approached more would like to be approached by, the sort of men who are going to care about with their partner thinks, and will respect boundaries. Not all, but a chunk of those 45% who end up never approaching a woman are downright marriage material, and if the women got a chance to meet them, they would want to date them and want to marry them. Back 15 years ago, that’s exactly what I discovered – that I was someone worth meeting – but it was a painful thing to do back then, and I think it’s even more painful now.
Now let’s consider the consequences of this over a number of generations. Fewer people are having kids in general, I think up to half of women in their thirties who wanted to have kids never have kids, and once you did have kids maybe had them with the 55% who are more aggressive, less pro-social, less nice. What does that do to the human race?
Anyway, I write a lot more about this in my book The graysonian ethic in the chapter on attraction. Human beings have a long lineage going back to this first single celled organism, it’s fascinating to look at the world from that perspective.
Getting pretty big “women only date assholes” vibes.
Before the internet I’m sure women were lining up around the block for those non-“loutish” men. Fear of rejection? What’s that? some of that newfangled internet nonsense is what that is.
Darn women ruining everything
I think you’re flattening a multidimensional analysis of a problem, and it’s not helpful or interesting.
In response to a criticism of male aggression, I explained female aggression and how it is modified in a postmodern social media driven world, and potential impacts of that, which shows exactly the dangers of just going with the flow.
The correct answer isn’t that women ruin everything or that men ruin everything. The correct answer is that both male aggression and female aggression have negative effects on dating and the human race as a whole, and a nuanced multifaceted approach is required. Men who are more agreeable need to step out of that comfort zone and figure out how to approach and engage and eventually escalate in a respectful manner because history is written by those who show up, but you can’t automatically put women on a pedestal either because they’re flawed and fallible human beings too.
Most of the chapter I wrote for the graysonian ethic on attraction is warnings about various ways things can go bad, but ultimately both men and women will need to take some risks because dating is dangerous all around but the outcome is the meaning of life – lifelong partnerships, building families, raising kids, and giving the future a little piece of yourself and your partner.
Your analysis is single-perspective and lacks dimension, actually. Gonna guess the whole book is equally as useless as this post and pass. You have an extremely thin worldview overall and you think you know the meaning of life. Just absolute drivel lmao
>In response to a criticism of male aggression, I explained female aggression and how it is modified in a postmodern social media driven world, and potential impacts of that, which shows exactly the dangers of just going with the flow.
No, you tried to allude that women were going to be the downfall of society because they don’t like being approached. You tried to back that up with the most drawn-out take that I basically summed up as “only assholes allowed to date now because 30 million bullies and they’re gonna have asshole kids and and and have you seen idiocracy??”
You’re trying to make it seem like people haven’t always been afraid of asking someone out and fear what might happen if they do. You think small town gossip pre internet was any better? You think confident guys haven’t always done better?
Also, do you think when women ask to not be approached that they literally mean leave them alone like nuns? I’m not here to teach you when you it’s ok to ask someone out.
Dawg, you gotta stop trying to use your own book to try and bring validity to this. It’s weird and no one’s read or is going to read that shit.
“lol just be up front lol”
The guy who will call your number immediately to check is not the guy that takes an up front ‘no’. Men have the freedom to be up front in the dating scene because the risk of sexual or physical violence is much less than for women.
If she’s given you a fake number, it’s most likely because she’s not interested in you, but doesn’t trust you enough to handle up front rejection. As other commenters have said, there is a physical disadvantage for a woman if she upsets the wrong man.
And what do you win by calling her bluff? She wasn’t interested in you before, and how you’ve put her on the spot. Either you’ve just made the whole situation more uncomfortable, or you’re trying to coerce a woman into giving you her private details that she is evidently unwilling to share. I wonder why.
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Your landline is a dominos pizza?
Cool!
Oh so I guess your mom is on the line saying hello right now?
Ah
These comment sections are why I’ve just given up on dating lmao it’s just not worth the stress.
The dating scene has been ruined by social media and 10% of batshit women and 10% of batshit men.
Women and men are afraid to talk to each other, because we’ve been lied to by Hollywood and the media that if you approach a woman she will laugh at you tell everyone you have a 1" penis and then throw her water in your face.
Or conversely if you as a woman show interest in a guy you are immediately called a slut and are asking to be raped.
The truth is that 90 % of people are normal and simply want to connect. There is nothing wrong with expressing your interest and if you do it politely and like a human being even if you are rejected the world won’t stop.
It’s all part of life and I’m really sorry for the younger generation because things have really gotten fucked up for them.
I really sympathize with what you say and I also feel sorry for younger people and all the folks in their 30s and up who are still on the market and are dealing with the insanity of it.
It’s a really rough situation for everybody… and, oddly enough, I think the dire circumstances people now face in the dating world may lead to more people permanently settling at younger ages because it’s too much of a risk to play the dating game of musical chairs so long.
But what do I know - people routinely do the opposite of what I think they should do, lol.
Lol in the era of routinely calling a phone number “so you have my phone number now” … this has surely been abandoned.
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