Our UN Delegation is no longer vetoing ceasfires – This was a demand of your group here just weeks ago
Biden just yesterday has now moved to conditioning aid. This is also an action.
Of course it may not be as quickly as you’d like, but you are also not privy to all information, polling, and expertise… And it is, indeed, action.
Sorry but I am just not convinced of this mentality. Look I’ve been there. I’ve been sub-22-years-old and full of spitfire, viva-la-revolution, Che Guevara posters – but those times are long-gone. Your path only spells widespread death and destruction and setting the country back literally decades. Even more people will be subjugated and even more people will be genocided.
So yes, between more or less genocide I’ll take less. Every time. Since I don’t even buy that you’re of voting age let alone American I just don’t take much stock in what you’re saying here.
So does your path lead to wide spread death and destruction, but with no action at all to make it subside. And you are right THE ACTIONS OF PEOPLE LIKE ME GOT BIDEN TO ‘TALK’ ABOUT DOING ACTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP. that means the cage rattling is working, so we best not stop until it is done. I am 35, i was unhappy at systemic injustice when i was younger but i am PISSED now. And for as long as i have been alive i have always heard those who say, now is not the time, win out over and over, and things have gotten worse and worse.
Seems to me the genocide is happening no matter who is president. So the claim that not voting Biden would be a worse genocide is laughable. What is trump going to do? GIVE ISREAL WEAPONS? IGNORE THE MURDERS OF HUMANITARIAN AID WORKERS?
Who knows? Maybe he would deploy the US military to show them how america does a genocide!
either way you do not offer a solution, only comfortable ambivalence. The insidious death of freedom. Maybe the realization that the Democratic Party must change to stay in power can survive 4 years of trump, for a better outcome over all. Or maybe not and there is no way out within the system. Or maybe with the party fracturing under his nose Biden will correct his course. He said he would and i I’m watching. so far i am unconvinced. And the threat of voting third party means nothing if there isn’t the will to actually do it. And the threat of holding isreal accountable means nothing with out the will to follow through
Whoa, let’s not get ahead of ourselves with a post hoc fallacy. Your cage rattling and threatening to vote for Trump (directly or indirectly) may not have done anything and it was just that the rest of the electorate starting recognizing what Israel is doing. Truly your time would be far better served not complaining about liberals or Biden and much better served holding these conversations with the undecided and pro-Israeli folk and convincing THEM. Thus, as you sway people into recognizing the atrocities of Israel, you see a reflection polling and henceforth a reflection in Biden’s actions in this thing called a Democracy where a broad coalition is necessary to win reelection.
Believe it or not there are degrees of genocide. There is less genocide with Biden and more genocide with Trump. Again, ask any Palestinian or Ukrainian whom they’d prefer in the White House to lessen the pain. To that point, if there is merely 1 less death under Biden than there is with Trump, then it is a logically and ethically-sound decision. As a result, I offered a solution: quantifiable, comparative logic. One is less than the other, guaranteed. I won’t entertain a blatantly false argument that Trump would be no worse than Biden. If you go there, this conversation is finished.
You are weighing lives of a future you cannot see or know. I can just as easily declare that forcing the Democratic Party to enact progressive legislation by risking their hold on power will have far reaching effects that will save more lives then those extra lost by a trump presidency. Remember that for this genocide to even happen the US had to enable it, and we did so 100% under Biden. I believe there was little else more trump could have done to make this worse. Biden prevented possible peace talks with his vetos. So i am not going to take your word on this genocide, Biden has done more than enough. No a trump presidency would be worse than another Biden’s for a million other reasons.
But the question is, in the long term, like a decade out, would righting the democratic course be better for all, even with the high cost of trump as president? Because when would they do it otherwise?
You can ask if i am just an anomaly, an outsider left, who prophesied either tyranny or revolution . Or am i the canary in the coal mine voicing a discontent that plagues the hearts of a large amount of people? I couldn’t tell you. We may have to wait and see.
But the more i think about it the more i am convinced. There must be change, one way or another. I just hope the frog isn’t boiled to death before it’s forced upon us. And my only outlet for that change is my vote. And i hope i get to vote for Biden
I can just as easily declare that forcing the Democratic Party to enact progressive legislation by risking their hold on power will have far reaching effects that will save more lives then those extra lost by a trump presidency.
I don’t find this comparable because because nobody can force the Democratic party to enact progressive legislation because this is contingent on these policies people popular among the majority of people, which they simply are not yet. In other words, you need to convince more of the electorate before you can even shift this. Whereas in my case, the future is set in stone: We will either have Trump, or we will have Biden. What’s more is Democrats literally CAN’T enact such progressive legislation because Republicans are obstructing any progress anyway, so I really have no clue what you’re saying here. Get Republicans out of the way, then Democrats would’ve implemented massive progressive policy long ago.
Remember that for this genocide to even happen the US had to enable it, and we did so 100% under Biden.
That’s not even remotely true, though. Consider Israel just starts pivoting into Russia or China’s sphere of influence and we lose any influence we have over Israel altogether. You think Israel can’t get weapons from elsewhere…? If anything, abandoning Israel too rapidly may have the entire opposite effect that you intend because now we have nothing to hold over them.
Let’s again not forget the dire consequences to Ukraine where genocide is largely being prevented by Democratic support to Ukraine (and nevertheless obstructed by Republicans) – and if Trump gets in, all aid is guaranteed to stop. So now you’ve got 2 genocides on your hands.
I hope when November comes we all vote for Biden lest we double-down on a downward spiral of entropy and doom generations to come as we take not just 1 step back, but 100 steps back and have to pick up the pieces of the puzzle yet again. For the sake of Ukrainians; for the sake of Palestinians; for the sake of my kids – everyone is holding their breath in hope of keeping some semblance of sanity in power lest we get the off-the-wall batshit crazy lunatics openly promoting a fascist playbook.
But as I said, there has been action:
Our UN Delegation is no longer vetoing ceasfires – This was a demand of your group here just weeks ago
Biden just yesterday has now moved to conditioning aid. This is also an action.
Of course it may not be as quickly as you’d like, but you are also not privy to all information, polling, and expertise… And it is, indeed, action.
Sorry but I am just not convinced of this mentality. Look I’ve been there. I’ve been sub-22-years-old and full of spitfire, viva-la-revolution, Che Guevara posters – but those times are long-gone. Your path only spells widespread death and destruction and setting the country back literally decades. Even more people will be subjugated and even more people will be genocided.
So yes, between more or less genocide I’ll take less. Every time. Since I don’t even buy that you’re of voting age let alone American I just don’t take much stock in what you’re saying here.
So does your path lead to wide spread death and destruction, but with no action at all to make it subside. And you are right THE ACTIONS OF PEOPLE LIKE ME GOT BIDEN TO ‘TALK’ ABOUT DOING ACTIONS THAT MIGHT HELP. that means the cage rattling is working, so we best not stop until it is done. I am 35, i was unhappy at systemic injustice when i was younger but i am PISSED now. And for as long as i have been alive i have always heard those who say, now is not the time, win out over and over, and things have gotten worse and worse.
Seems to me the genocide is happening no matter who is president. So the claim that not voting Biden would be a worse genocide is laughable. What is trump going to do? GIVE ISREAL WEAPONS? IGNORE THE MURDERS OF HUMANITARIAN AID WORKERS?
Who knows? Maybe he would deploy the US military to show them how america does a genocide!
either way you do not offer a solution, only comfortable ambivalence. The insidious death of freedom. Maybe the realization that the Democratic Party must change to stay in power can survive 4 years of trump, for a better outcome over all. Or maybe not and there is no way out within the system. Or maybe with the party fracturing under his nose Biden will correct his course. He said he would and i I’m watching. so far i am unconvinced. And the threat of voting third party means nothing if there isn’t the will to actually do it. And the threat of holding isreal accountable means nothing with out the will to follow through
Whoa, let’s not get ahead of ourselves with a post hoc fallacy. Your cage rattling and threatening to vote for Trump (directly or indirectly) may not have done anything and it was just that the rest of the electorate starting recognizing what Israel is doing. Truly your time would be far better served not complaining about liberals or Biden and much better served holding these conversations with the undecided and pro-Israeli folk and convincing THEM. Thus, as you sway people into recognizing the atrocities of Israel, you see a reflection polling and henceforth a reflection in Biden’s actions in this thing called a Democracy where a broad coalition is necessary to win reelection.
Believe it or not there are degrees of genocide. There is less genocide with Biden and more genocide with Trump. Again, ask any Palestinian or Ukrainian whom they’d prefer in the White House to lessen the pain. To that point, if there is merely 1 less death under Biden than there is with Trump, then it is a logically and ethically-sound decision. As a result, I offered a solution: quantifiable, comparative logic. One is less than the other, guaranteed. I won’t entertain a blatantly false argument that Trump would be no worse than Biden. If you go there, this conversation is finished.
You are weighing lives of a future you cannot see or know. I can just as easily declare that forcing the Democratic Party to enact progressive legislation by risking their hold on power will have far reaching effects that will save more lives then those extra lost by a trump presidency. Remember that for this genocide to even happen the US had to enable it, and we did so 100% under Biden. I believe there was little else more trump could have done to make this worse. Biden prevented possible peace talks with his vetos. So i am not going to take your word on this genocide, Biden has done more than enough. No a trump presidency would be worse than another Biden’s for a million other reasons.
But the question is, in the long term, like a decade out, would righting the democratic course be better for all, even with the high cost of trump as president? Because when would they do it otherwise?
You can ask if i am just an anomaly, an outsider left, who prophesied either tyranny or revolution . Or am i the canary in the coal mine voicing a discontent that plagues the hearts of a large amount of people? I couldn’t tell you. We may have to wait and see.
But the more i think about it the more i am convinced. There must be change, one way or another. I just hope the frog isn’t boiled to death before it’s forced upon us. And my only outlet for that change is my vote. And i hope i get to vote for Biden
I don’t find this comparable because because nobody can force the Democratic party to enact progressive legislation because this is contingent on these policies people popular among the majority of people, which they simply are not yet. In other words, you need to convince more of the electorate before you can even shift this. Whereas in my case, the future is set in stone: We will either have Trump, or we will have Biden. What’s more is Democrats literally CAN’T enact such progressive legislation because Republicans are obstructing any progress anyway, so I really have no clue what you’re saying here. Get Republicans out of the way, then Democrats would’ve implemented massive progressive policy long ago.
That’s not even remotely true, though. Consider Israel just starts pivoting into Russia or China’s sphere of influence and we lose any influence we have over Israel altogether. You think Israel can’t get weapons from elsewhere…? If anything, abandoning Israel too rapidly may have the entire opposite effect that you intend because now we have nothing to hold over them.
Let’s again not forget the dire consequences to Ukraine where genocide is largely being prevented by Democratic support to Ukraine (and nevertheless obstructed by Republicans) – and if Trump gets in, all aid is guaranteed to stop. So now you’ve got 2 genocides on your hands.
I hope when November comes we all vote for Biden lest we double-down on a downward spiral of entropy and doom generations to come as we take not just 1 step back, but 100 steps back and have to pick up the pieces of the puzzle yet again. For the sake of Ukrainians; for the sake of Palestinians; for the sake of my kids – everyone is holding their breath in hope of keeping some semblance of sanity in power lest we get the off-the-wall batshit crazy lunatics openly promoting a fascist playbook.