I’m sorry for posting this here. There isn’t a solar panel instance, nor did I see anything for electricians. I know there’s been a lot of gripe with certain solar companies (solgen being in litigation, and others) but I didn’t hear much about freedom forever, since they’re new to Seattle area where I’m doing this. Reddit seems to hate this company. But the price seems alright. I’m paying $22k for 7.4kw but getting it down to 15k after the state stipend. Less than $3 a watt which I’m guessing is really good. I’m planning to pay it off in 2 or 3 years. Not the full 25 which will cost me so much more. Can anyone point me in the right direction and if I’m making the right decision?
This blew my mind as an Australian, I had a 9.9kw system installed for about $3200AUD from memory, there was a rebate but I’m unsure how much.
I get a minimum like 18kw a day on really cloudy days and up to high 50s on a good summer day. No batteries but it’s drastically reduced my power bill.
Straya is living in the year 3024 with regards to solar. We’re all very jealous of your success in this particular endeavor.
Do they ever get rain down there though? Feels like there’s a lot of sun compared to like Europe
Usually straight after the bushfires
They’ve got better conditions with regards to the amount of sunlight, yes, but I was mainly referring to the incredible price tag of the installed system.
Yes, loads in Melbourne winter
Not an answer, but there is a solar punk instance with loads of communities for this if you’re interested.
Anyone know why this doesn’t open in Sync?
Just a guess, but I see URLCheck freaking out on my side, probably because the H in https is capitalized. Maybe try https://slrpnk.net/?
Dang still not working. Oh well ¯\(◉°◉)/¯
I’m using Sync and that second link is working just fine for me.
So long as you understand that you’re paying out the ass for a company to do it. It’s actually very simple to do yourself, and if you’re willing to do it yourself for $20,000 you can get 20 KW of solar panels, 12 KW of inverter output and 32 KWh of battery storage from signature solar.
It’s not difficult to do, it’s not difficult to do properly and to code and safely. The amount that these people charge for the labor is fucking asinine and wildly out of line with the difficulty of the work done.
I have at this point installed three solar systems two for myself and one for a friend all of them have been inspected by Master electricians and passed and the only information I used was solar DIY Forum posts and YouTube videos
Mam that is tempting. I’m an electrician but I never dove into photovoltaics.
If you have a good handle on DC systems and inverters it’s not that bad. Hardest part in my experience is figuring things out with your power company if you’re staying on grid.
Also at least in the us, check your town and state for rebates and such. A lot of the time these scummy solar companies are double dipping, charging you 20k and also getting a couple k from the gov through solar programs.
Yeah it’s WAY WAY WAY easier if you DON’T grid tie. Off grid inverters with battery are the way to go. they are basically just a UPS on steroids they can take the grid as an input but they will never feed back into it. Meaning your power company need not be involved at all thankfully.
Honestly you really don’t need to be all that familiar with the DC Systems either. There’s so many amazing resources out there that will literally hold your hand through the whole process. What kind of cut-offs you need to have, what type of Breakers and where. Pass that just don’t swap positive with negative and you’re basically good to go it’s a shockingly simple system which is why it’s so disgusting how much they charge to install it
OK I want to look into doing it myself. Where would I start with the resources?
My only reason I wanted to tie to grid is to get in on the NEM that my local energy company offers. A 1 to 1 net metering. I live in Seattle and getting that energy back in the winter is worth it for me
Lots of states are turning hostile towards metered solar, I have no doubt Washington will eventually join them so it might not be long-term a good idea. As for resources https://diysolarforum.com/ has a ton as does https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse
As for equipment i can’t recommend signature solar enough. I’ve had plenty of problems with the FedEx freight shipping but they’ve always been good about making sure everything is taken care of if there’s any damage without much fuss (always take pictures of even the smallest box damage on delivery)
For example with a goal of about 20k spent This bundle gets you 12Kw of inverter output and 30Kwh of batteries for 11k. Then just grab two Of these solar panel pallets for 28Kw of panels.
Now ofc in summer you will never use that much BUT you should be sizing your array to account for the winter months rather than solar. If you indeed want to go grid tie you could get one of their bundles with the larger 12k single unit as I’m pretty it can backfeed
As the other guy said, the only hard parts for you will be to negotiate staying on the grid or cutting off completely.
I ran all the numbers and you are paying a ridiculous price for solar. You will see it pay it self off in 50 years, which I doubt you will care about at all once you are 50 years older or giving the house to your next of kin.
What numbers? I ran the numbers to purchase 18 panels with IQ8+ micro inverters, the solar edge inverter, the infrastructure and misc and it came out to just $3-4k under the $15k I’ll be paying. That $3-4k covers will be the cost of install and to get me onto PSE’s last few 1 to 1 net metering programs.
Your screenshot shows 20k spent. I’m assuming you mean after federal tax rebate. As for what numbers
For example with a goal of about 20k spent This bundle gets you 12Kw of inverter output and 30Kwh of batteries for 11k. Then just grab two Of these solar panel pallets for 28Kw of panels. Or Alternatively go smaller with just one pallet and save a bit. Then ofc you will get the 30% federal tax credit on top of everything
So far as i can see from your invoice you won’t have any battery storage, your inverter is less than 4k output. So for the same price you could get 3x the inverter capacity, actually have battery, meaning even during a complete blackout you would still be able to have power, and get 3x as much solar array. Or you could get a similarly sized system for a fraction of the price. EG4 also has a larger inverter than can do the metering if you want that so could trade the 2x pallets for 1x with backfeed inverter
OK that’s amazing. Thank you for this information. Yes with the rebate I’m paying $15k.
That was my concern, if I do it myself would I still get the rebate. I’ll call PSE on Monday and ask if I will get the rebate and if I can also opt into the 1 to 1 net metering.
You can, they require full wiring diagrams for approval and inspection by a master electrician. One of the setups i did was for PSE in Washington. Federal tax credit counts as well in diy
I’m taking my master exam in 3 weeks lol. How I know so little about photovoltaics is embarrassing. But I can get a diagram and design built easily enough. I’ll call them Monday to discuss what they need.
Their pricing looks good, you’re getting black on black modules and optimizers for a bit over $2 per watt after incentives. As someone who works in the industry I’d say that’s a pretty decent price.
Awesome! Well thank you. That’s basically all I really needed. I didn’t see any red flags other than the fact that they were sales people. Promoting a company that just came to Washington in January so I understand trying to get their foot in the door.
I made sure to get the quote and BOM so everything lines up after install.
Jesus Christ America are you OK?
I had 13ish kilowatt solar installed for 3.8k AUD… Why is it so expensive over there?
It’s the grift.
These companies charge $10-15K to act as the General Contractor to sub out the work.
Tarrifs on Chinese panels
Old time solar user here. I installed a 2.4KW system myself in 2003. Initial cost $16K, reimbursed half of that. We never regretted the cost - only wish we could have installed more. Now we also want batteries.
PS: Have you already considered posting to c/SolarDIY, or searching by “solar” in the Communities page?
I did a search but the DIY one had 24 members or something.
Yeah, but there’s… SolarDIY - 345 subscribers
I mean for this sort of thing I’d check reddit. I’m sure there are some good ideas about this there.
Mentioning the obvious things: Remember that depending on your location, you will not get full sunlight everyday of the year. The orientation of your roof and whether it’s pointed toward the sun also matters. If you have any young trees around you, they might grow and cast a shadow on your roof. If you have neighbors, they might plant trees.
You can use Project Sunroof to roughly estimate the average sunlight your location receives during a full year (accounting for weather conditions): https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/
It’s about what I paid for an 8kw system in the northeast. Shave off $500-$1k and you’ll be even with me. I got quotes from a dozen companies if that helps. After sifting through new, old companies and “too good to be true” pricing, that’s where I landed.
While I can’t speak to your region and local subsidies, I’ve recently been looking into solar and this seems comparable to offers I saw, in terms of total price for the system and it’s size. I’m in the EU though, so no clue how comparable these values should even be.
It seems crazy expensive compared to what it would cost in the Netherlands. No advertisement, but check prices on e.g. the site Solar Bouwmarkt. There’s still loads of costs aside from the panels themselves, so please add everything up. Still, if you think that was a good price I wonder if you know the costs involved.
I had assumed it’s everything, including installation. The offer shown includes inverter and all the usual. if it’s just panels, that would obviously not be an acceptable price.
Seems high. I paid about that much for 7kw panels, 6kw inverter, and 15kwh batteries. You aren’t getting the batteries, which are about $4k installed. Texas
I wonder if Seattle is just more expensive. $3/watt is the average here per online info. That’s just the panel inverter install.
PSE is also doing a 1 to 1 net metering.
I paid 26k for 8.4kw three years ago from A&R solar in Seattle.
Solar prices are very regional. Different local rebates, labor costs, permitting requirements, etc.
Hard to say without knowing your full situation.
Does your power utility do net metering? How much do you expect to generate compared to your usage on a annual basis?
I got a 6.5kW system a few years ago for a final price of around 12k after rebates. It covers nearby all of my usage and my provider does net metering, so really good days cover less good days, summer covers winter, etc.
Yeah net metering with PSE 1 to 1.
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Isn’t that just a 3.8Kw inverter though? You can input up to like 150% or so I think but you’re only ever producing a max of 3.8.
I’m supposed to be getting an Enphase IQ8 micro inverter. I can’t see a kw rating on that though when I look it up. It looks like they go directly with each panel.
What’s with the financing? 0%-11%
Is the rate adjustable?
Ask for the cash price and see what the actual interest rate is. Generally the financed price is higher, and the interest rate is low. But if you’re planning to pay it off in 2 years, you might be better off saving up and buying in cash.
That’s just been my experience (oregon, not Washington)
Yeah? Maybe. I just want to get in before PSE stops the 1 to 1 net metering.
That makes sense. Can’t you give PSE a call and see what the schedule is?
Otherwise you could check what the cash price is anyway, and use a HELOC or personal loan to get a fixed interest rate (this really only makes sense if you’re serious about paying it off quickly)
But seriously ask about the “cash price”. Because I was shocked at how much more the principle is on the financing offered through the Solar company. It seems solar companies are partnered with financing companies to make the monthly price palatable for larger groups of customers.
Yeah he should me what it would cost with a lower interest rate. I hate door to door sales men so I made him work. We say down and calculated every panel, micro inverter, framing, inverter, and permits and it came out to around $11k for just material. I’m paying $4k more for install of it all since I’m only paying 15k with the incentive. They’re obviously making more.
I looked everywhere to see if I can get the incentive if I buy and install the panels myself but I couldn’t find any details on that. It would turn a 15k system to a 12k system with my own labor
Good deal. Seems like you’ve got a pretty good grasp of it.
When I got the sales pitch I just leaned into it, and went out and got quotes from 3 others. Compare and contrast!
What have they promised for your annual production estimate? Also what’s your current cost of power?
I pay approximately $200 for electrical monthly. At least that was my last bill, about $210 for electrical using 11kw or so. They promise me 7.4kw monthly. So whatever that is yearly. I didn’t want a full system. I wanted to start with 1 roof, get the permits and incentives and the net metering started then add to the system later if I wanted.
Sorry for the industry jargon, but measuring things in kW won’t give you the full picture, you want to compare things in “kWh”. Your utility bill should show your price in $/kWh and the solar company should have given you a production estimate from Helioscope or some kind of similar energy estimating software that shows expected annual kWh output
Change my kw with kwh. Those are kwh numbers for daily use. Sorry, I’m an electrician. I’ve been load calc’ing my VAV loads for my project, and I’ve been writing kw all day.
The price seems ok. There’s more to consider than price though. Do people dislike them because of the quality of their work?
I mean not really. Most of what everyone said is that they didn’t install what they quoted, or that they had trouble with customer support, tried suing or something like that. I don’t expect litigation. I got them to give me their quote and scope, so I know what they promised is what’s going in.
If they don’t install what was quoted, you might not know until this are installed. That could make things difficult.
I’ll add that is around the size of my system and less than I paid. I do have microinverters however. So that could explain some cost difference.
Then they can pay to remove it. Violation of contract. I didn’t agree to equivalent panels. I agreed to what they quoted and what I paid for.
Hmm. Did you take out a loan? I’m doing this with a 25 year loan. It’s a little pricy to do that
I did a 5 year “solar loan” through my credit union. 2.49% if I recall correctly.
