Translation from a post at ResetEra, slight modifications/formatting by me.
The annual Naples ComiCon among its numerous guests also welcome Yasumi Matsuno, game designer and scenario writer of some of the most influential titles of our era: Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy XII, and others. Most recently he collaborated with the Final Fantasy XIV team on the “Return to Ivalice” and “Save the Queen: Blades of Gunnhildr” scenarios.
Interviewing him I had the pleasure of meeting an author with great creativity, who recognizes enormous value in original and innovative ideas, and is convinced that it is always worth creating something new and complex, even at the cost of not chasing a broad target audience. But also presents a witty & pragmatic outlook who does not self-aggrandize despite his professional successes.
To my great pleasure he answered my questions very thoroughly, opinions about entertainment and his own work , so this interview is significantly longer than what you might be used to. Precisely for this reason, however, it shows us up close some less “public” sides of Yasumi Matsuno. Enjoy the reading.
MARCO PATRIZI, interviewer: Can you tell us something about how your career began? What led you to develop video games at Quest Corporation?
YASUMI MATSUNO: Thank you very much, and thank you for inviting me.
When I was a university student my aspiration was to enter the film industry, but since it was really difficult I changed my mind and started working in a small journalism company. I specify that in this period my work had nothing to do with the world of video games. Work often took me to interview various people, such as company presidents. It was fun and I learned a lot about how to write about various topics.
At the time I had a college friend who was three years older than me and who started developing video games. I wasn’t a huge fan at the time, but I had still played various games on the Famicom. One day I went to visit this friend of mine in the office and I saw what he was doing, and I remember that he intrigued me a lot.
I remember that in the 80’s, most international games were created based on already existing and famous characters. But in Japan, things were a little different, that is, the protagonists of the games became famous. And this friend of mine did just that: he created original characters for his games, and this interested me a lot.
In the pyramid scale of entertainment, given the large amount of films, books and various shows, it was very difficult to establish oneself with a new work, because there was already a lot of competition. Instead, the world of video games had been born relatively recently–in fact it was even seen quite badly by some–so I thought that there were more possibilities for someone like me to enter it and establish myself. Fortunately, my work as a journalist had made me better at writing than others.
I then started sending many CVs to companies. I remember getting rejected by Namco and Square. The first company that hired me was Bothtec, a PC video game company that had created a division that only dealt with video games for Famicom consoles, this division was precisely Quest. There were only 15 people working there at the time and I came in knowing nothing about programming. Then, six months after my arrival, it happened that my boss retired and due to my age I became the new boss, and I had to manage the group.
The company wasn’t doing well at the time. Normally games were made on existing works, so the decision was made to do something original. The group was divided into two teams, the first started working on an action game, then we decided to make a role-playing game. At the time, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy had achieved great success, so many companies wanted to follow their success by creating other RPGs, so we chose to focus on a strategy game, and this is how the development of Ogre Battle began .
After a year of development, we showed it to Nintendo during the Tokyo Game Show. At the time there was the belief that new IPs risked selling poorly, that it was better to make sequels like they did with Super Mario, so Nintendo was a bit skeptical towards a new game. After seeing it, however, they were convinced and supported us financially. Consider that at the time, a game that sold ten thousand copies did well. When Ogre Battle came out in 1993, it sold 500,000.
MP: What are your favorite games?
YM: Before I got into the video game industry, I really liked the very first The Legend of Zelda on the Famicom. Later I got really into SimCity; I played it a lot! Later I also played a lot of The Atlas, on PC. The protagonist is a captain of a ship that leaves from the Strait of Gibraltar and has to look for land in the Atlantic Ocean, and as he explores the map it expands. And every time you started a game the shape of the world changed.
You also receive information from explorers who say they have found lands. But they could also be lying, so it’s up to the player to understand and decide whether to believe them. It is possible that someone will say that they have found America, Japan, or even fantastic lands such as the continent of Mu or floating cities! It was a very interesting game to exercise the imagination. In general I like games with brilliant and innovative ideas, even if they are not very famous.
I recently really enjoyed Ghost of Tsushima and Red Dead Redemption. Except that when I played it I had the feeling that I knew what was going to happen.
MP: The settings of your games are often inspired by medieval Europe. Where does this propensity come from?
YM: You know, for Japanese audiences, fantasy is very close to the idea of medieval Europe. Today if you think of fantasy, The Lord of the Rings, Dungeons & Dragons, or Harry Potter immediately come to mind, but in the 80’s very few fantasy works were known. Fans of the genre knew and read fantasy books, but the general public thought of Disney works. One of the few works that the Japanese knew was the legend of King Arthur, his sword, and Merlin. In the film sector, Conan the Barbarian and Excalibur were famous.
If you think of the first approach to fantasy of Japanese productions in the 80’s, Miyazaki’s films Nausicaa and Laputa come to mind, but also Dragon Quest, with the drawing style of Akira Toriyama, which had a very pop visual style. So in the 90’s, they wanted to create a slightly more “serious” fantasy.
I’ll give you an example: before the armor was designed very massively, all in one piece, in a way that didn’t allow the characters to move realistically. Instead, I gave instructions to [Akihiko] Yoshida-san to design the armor so that the characters’ movements were realistic. He wasn’t familiar with fantasy at the time, because he was an advertising graphic designer. But being a very serious professional, he bought some books and studied how to draw armor well to be able to make the designs I asked him to do.
Players liked its more realistic designs, which is what I wanted. I think there was this curiosity and desire to see another kind of fantasy. In reality, I personally like even less precise and realistic settings, such as those of Captain Future or Flash Gordon. (laughs)
MP: Playing your games, one of the recurring themes that I am pleased to find is the relationship and contrast between humanity and power. Do you have a personal opinion on this topic that you try to convey, or do you prefer to create conditions in which the player draws their own conclusions?
YM: Unlike today, in the 80’s and 90’s video games were mainly made for children and very young teenagers. But observing the users of video games, I noticed that in reality there were also kids over 18, university students, adults who played video games… So I thought it was a great opportunity.
To make a comparison: when I was young I read Dumas’ books in a version adapted for children; then as I grew up I read the original versions and I realized that there was much more: sex, violence, death… Similarly, at the time in video games a lot of content of this kind was left out to be suitable for children too.
What I wanted to do was try to learn the best things from all types of games and incorporate themes that are more relatable to adult players. At the time there were few games like this, so my projects were also approved to cater to that type of user.
MP: We know that the develoment of Final Fantasy XII began under your direction, but that you had to step down from the role. Is there anything about the final game that you weren’t completely happy with that you would have done differently if you had continued to direct it?
YM: I would like to specify that, even though I had to leave my role, the development of Final Fantasy XII followed my directions on the story. The only thing I would have liked is to see more detailed characters. But it’s no fault of anyone on the team, except mine who had to leave.
MP: I read a while ago that you worked in Quest’s Customer Service section and were very attentive to player feedback. Is there anything you would like to change with the knowledge you have now?
YM: Almost everything. (laughs) I tend to be quite a perfectionist.
MP: It seems that Naoki Yoshida holds your talent in high regard. Do you have a good relationship? Would you like to work with him again?
YM: In general we are friends, we often go eating and drinking together. And if Yoshida-san wants to work with me again in the future, I would be very happy.
MP: Do you play Final Fantasy XIV a lot?
YM: I used to play it quite a while ago, but lately I don’t have much time. But when the new expansion comes out in July (Dawntrail), I think I’ll go back to playing again. I’m currently stuck at the sixth expansion, on the Moon.
Lately I have to say that I play the mahjong minigame more than the actual game. (laughs) Last January I went to the Fan Festival, in the Tokyo Dome. As many as 60 thousand people participated. And on that occasion, Yoshida-san announced that the new expansion would be released soon; the game’s voice actors were also attending. And near the Tokyo Dome there was a hall dedicated to playing mahjong, and I actually didn’t participate in the Fan Festival, but I played mahjong for two days! (laughs)
And with me there were also other people I had worked with, such as programmers and voice actors for the game. The games were very exciting, and there was this voice actor with a beautiful but also very loud voice who often shouted while playing and could be heard throughout the whole dome, and people told him to quiet down. It was very funny.
MP: You certainly receive a lot of requests from fans to return to work on a sequel or remake of your most successful games. I have always thought, however, that it could also be demeaning for an author to feel the expectation only towards his past titles. How do you deal with this situation? Would you prefer fans to focus more on your future projects, or do you find satisfaction in hearing so much admiration for your past works?
YM: Personally, I would prefer fans to wait for new games. But in the end, it is the companies that decide what is best to do, so if they decide to produce sequels or remakes I have no objections to doing what they ask of me.
It’s also true that it’s difficult to create something successful from nothing. There are franchises, for example Indiana Jones, that always do well every time a new film comes out, while it is more difficult to always create something new of quality. Which is why Hollywood continues to focus on Marvel and DC films, but also to expand Star Wars. Given the large fan base, they are safer projects.
MP: If conditions allowed it, would you like to work on a new game set in Ivalice or a sequel to the Ogre series? Or would you feel uncomfortable working on a setting from many years ago?
YM: Personally, I would always prefer to create something new. The problem is that nowadays it is difficult to embark on a totally original project. Thirty years ago it was possible to create a game with ten people, today many millions of funding are needed, so companies are more cautious about taking risks.
Also because today the budget must take into account translation and localization in many languages which must start immediately, while some time ago a game came out in Japanese and was only later translated into English. Then every translation needs someone to check it… In short, more people and more money are needed.
MP: What game are you playing these days? Or what’s the next game you’d like to play?
YM: I recently played Unicorn Overlord, which Richter (composer of Unicorn Overlord, sitting next to Matsuno) also worked on. I haven’t finished it yet, but I find it very well done.
Just three weeks ago, I went out drinking with [LTD Basiscape composer Hitoshi] Sakimoto-san and [Vanillaware founder George] Kamitani-san. Also there was Manabu Yamana, a programmer who worked on Dragon Quest. We’re friends, so we talked about Unicorn Overlord and why it’s selling well. It’s a great game and I can’t wait for Vanillaware’s next game to come out.
Some time ago, since I like Harry Potter, I also played Hogwarts Legacy, which I found fun. Now I’m also playing Baldur’s Gate 3, I’m almost at the end and I’m liking it a lot.
Original article: https://www.tomshw.it/videogioco/yasumi-matsuno-ci-racconta-i-suoi-albori-ma-guarda-al-futuro-intervista