from the comments
Quick question, who formed an alliance with Hitler? Stalin or Roosevelt?
The answer to this question is “Mussolini and Tojo”. Several European countries signed a “Non Aggression Pact” before the USSR, and then the USSR signed a “Non Aggression Pact” to buy time because they knew an invasion was inevitable.
Aha, but we decided that World War II arbitrarily started when Germany invaded Poland after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, and didn’t start because of any conflicts before or after that. Checkmate, tankie
Viewing WWI and WW2 as basically one giant war with an interlude would be too difficult for Neoliberal posters but if you mention Crecy or Agincourt they’ll probably blather something about the Hundred Years War. Deeply unserious understanders of History.
In fairness, I do think that the “one long war” thesis becomes less relevant when you step outside of Europe.
In Asia, WWII grew much more directly out of the second Sino-Japanese War, which is much more related to the long strand of Japanese imperialism towards mainland Asia than the outcome of WWI (though of course animosity at some of the outcomes of Versailles were relevant, I don’t think they were such a defining factor). In the Middle East, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire meant that the region went from one of the primary belligerents to somewhat of a sideshow. I’m sure someone more well versed in Africa and South America could also point out some differences between the wars.
These dorks dont consider anything in the pacific part of the conflict until post pearl harbour
I did always like the Second Thirty Years War for WW1, Russian Revolution,various failed revolutions, various Soviet wars and the foreign invasion of the USSR, Italian invasion of Abyssinia,the Spanish Civil War, Sino-Japanese war, WW2, post WW2 uprisings etc
It really is interesting how these people can skate by saying the USSR and Nazis had an alliance while I have to actually be knowledgeable about history and economics. I suppose I wouldn’t think what I do if I weren’t knowledgeable. I would probably think what they think.
Corporate America could have been an Axis power with how much it supported the Fascists, and the neutrality between Berlin and Moscow was nothing compared to the alliance between Europe’s Fascist empires.
Great addition, thanks!
Bold to think they understand anything that isn’t their talking points
The USSR also tried to form alliances with the Allies but we’re rejected. Nazi Germany was very much their last choice despite being invaded by many of the Allies during the Russian Civil War
yes and I wouldn’t really say nazi germany was a “choice” for an ally, or even an “ally,” the soviets were, again, stalling, buying time, and pretty much knew germany was eventually going to invade them, since hitler had spent the previous 19 years screeching into microphones about “judeobolshevism” and “the slavic untermensch” and the need for “lebensraum”
could somebody post sources for those?
(yeah I’m posting wikipedia, I don’t feel like spending the rest of my sunday night hunting down the specific books on libgen that are cited on each page, suffice it to say these are events which did occur, and even English Wikipedia doesn’t deny them, the problem with a lot of these pacts is that they are named different things by different countries)
Four-Power Pact (worth noting france did not ratify)
Anti Comintern Pact since this was between Japan/Germany there’s less amnesia about it
German Romanian Economical Treaty March 1939
German Ultimatum to Lithuania in March 1939 seems a bit unfair to characterize as a treaty tbh
“Pact of Steel” with Italy 1939 Now THIS is actually a military alliance pact, which is what people keep characterizing molotov-ribbentrop as
Danish-German non aggression pact May 1939 this one isn’t wikipedia
Germany Estonia N-A-Pact June 7th 1939
German-Latvian N-A-Pact June 7th 1939
Also it’s worth noting that even though the USA never signed a non aggression pact with nazi germany, american capitalists were quite fond of funding nazis, doing trade with nazis, and even hosting nazi party rallies in the United States (such as one in madison square garden in 1939). And there was even a fascist attempt at a coup against FDR, that was thwarted by smedley butler being a whistleblower.
What makes people freak out about molotov ribbentrop is the agreement to partition states. the reason for this is because the USSR needed time to deconstruct factories and move them east before the luftwaffe could bomb them. The USSR made a calculated risk that by dividing poland they could move the future war front far west of where it would otherwise be if they refused a non aggression pact and just got invaded right away, and at the same time, move their war industry far east of the war front. Of course by making this calculated risk they gave an easy propaganda victory to all bourgeois nations who experience collective amnesia about every other non aggression pact, as well as their categorical refusal to enter into collective security against fascism with the “bolshevik menace” in the 1930s. It is somewhat similar to how USSR tried to join NATO in the 50s and was refused. The bourgeois nations never wanted collective security or peace with the USSR, even when it was on the table. In particular the USSR only invaded finland because it was the most convenient route to invade the USSR, and the Finnish (a future axis power) wouldn’t sell them the land that the nazis eventually used to invade.
But mah westphalian sacred nation state national borders sovereignty! You can’t just go around doing sttategy like the lines on the map aren’t sacred and holy!
Note that the Finnish government was prepared to accept the land swap with the ussr until some old White generals barged in and shut it all down. But, again, my sovereignty! Won’t anyone think of my sovereignty!
Similar amnesia about Putin trying to normalize relations with the west and join nato years ago.
What makes people freak out about molotov ribbentrop is the agreement to partition states.
Made even “funnier” given that the Munich Agreement ALSO included a partition agreement: Germany got the Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia. Truly just hypocrisy to single out the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact like they do
They’re also trying to argue against an economic system based on something that a guy who has been dead for seventy tears did almost a century ago, when our critique of their farcical imitation of an economy is very much grounded in this week’s politics.
It would be sick if we actually judged Capitalism as a mode of production by the Late Victorian genocides committed by England, Belgium, and other Capitalist/Colonialist powers, but we know that will never happen.
Can you imagine? “Stalin did a bad thing!” “Oh yeah? Here’s a list of the, idfk, probably half a billion people capitalism has directly murdered since it’s inception, and then we’ll start on the starvation deaths”.
When you mention that USSR proposed to sent million soldiers to guard Poland, they immediately point out Poland was very hostile to USSR and would never agreed (though it’s not even correct, they would most likely if pressurised by UK and France), and even by their own understanding this make M-R not even comparable to Munich because M-R divided hostile state while in Munich UK-FR-DE partitioned country which was FORMAL FRENCH ALLY.
Really good point; I’ll start putting it that way as well when I actually get that far into it (I usually don’t)
tysm!
My appreciation for the Jewish community is what inspires me to carry out this work.
Your ideology is responsable for the death of an entire branch of my family during the Vietnam war. Go fuck yourself shitstain.
LOL get rekt
Communism is a failed ideology because the other branch is still here
There are entire American Indians tribes wiped out by American Liberalism, go fuck yourself r/neolib
19 million plus people were killed. the culture, languages, everything was obliterated to the best ability of the bloodthirsty monsters that forced the people off of the land leaving the survivors were left to pick up the pieces under brutal colonial oppression. and this piece of shit has the audacity to whine about their fascist vietnamese family being caught in the crossfire of the heroic struggle of liberation of their homeland.
in that exact same conflict way more people were killed by the US in the name of anti-communism goddamn
6 million civilians killed by Germany: this tragedy must never happen again
6 million civilians killed by Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan: we have won the war on terror
Skill issue, I simply would not have sided with the forces of reaction and imperialism.
If the death of a branch of a family was enough to reject something forever, I’ve got some bad news about the US
How was the US not responsible in this person’s mind?
Got a screenshot? I went trying to find that, but got a headache and had to look away
Unable to give any logical explanations for such atrocities
Uh, no, the logical explanation is that it
A. Didn’t happen (95% probability)
B. Did happen and your shitty fascist grandpa deserved it (4.9% probability)
C. Happened and it sucked, war is messy (0.1% probability)
unable to find excuses
The “excuse” was that they deserved it, yes, because they were fascists or Kulaks.
Small brained libs are unbearable, I swear to god.
deleted by creator
(Mods pls make a bot that posts this any time r/neoliberal is brought up)
PPI has been around since 1989 and views itself as Bill Clinton’s “idea mill” aka think tank. Why I call them a fossil fuel think tank is detailed here. They oppose climate action, defend fracking, and receive donations from Exxon Mobil.
it’s safe to say that their upvotes are farmed, and their organic support is mostly bourgeois economics and political science majors and interns who hope to work for PPI or a similar think tank one day. It’s basically a Neera Tanden farm.
The creator of r/neoliberal, Colin Mortimer, is the Director of the Center for New Liberalism at PPI, which seeks to “develop a salient identity around the center-left values that have increasingly come under fire in this age of populism.”
copy the text in this spoiler tag to repost
PPI has been around since 1989 and views itself as Bill Clinton's "idea mill" aka think tank. [Why I call them a fossil fuel think tank is detailed here.](https://archive.is/4Voil#selection-595.0-597.270) They oppose climate action, defend fracking, and receive donations from Exxon Mobil. it's safe to say that their upvotes are farmed, and their organic support is mostly bourgeois economics and political science majors and interns who hope to work for PPI or a similar think tank one day. It's basically a Neera Tanden farm. The creator of r/neoliberal, [Colin Mortimer](https://twitter.com/Colinmort), is the [Director of the Center for New Liberalism at PPI](https://archive.is/Jq2sO), which seeks to "develop a salient identity around the center-left values that have increasingly come under fire in this age of populism."Populism: “a majority of people think this idea is good and thus we have to make it sinister”
this age of populism
This age of populism where there is less and less “populism”
Manufactured “Populism”, more like. Funny how all of the right wing “populists” are funded by the most powerful capitalists on the planet.
Amazing how entirely eradicated “qui bono” question is from the public discourse and education system. Hell even biblical version of “you will know them by their fruits” is nearly forgotten.
Two people there independently made a “you are serving me at a cafe lmao” joke, these freaks really hate working people
“You’re circle-jerking on the internet while at that cafe while your date is getting bored.”
Dont call me out like that!
I remember a commenter on there years ago saying he had to hold back his temper when a buddy brought up the minimum wage being too low. Back when they were trying to raise it to $15
Oh I didn’t get that, I didn’t understand why they were talking about coffee.
That shit pissed me off so much. I hope all their coffees are fucked with in the future.
“In a rich man’s cafe, there is no place to spit but his coffee”
The top reply being an “I make money and you have to work” comment is really funny. Bro we know, if you didn’t have a fake job at daddy’s lawfirm you wouldn’t be a neoliberal.
It’s true, the only reason I’m a communist is that my dad doesn’t have a law firm.
Neoliberalism - dad owns a law firm
Social democracy - dad is a non-managing partner at the law firm
Communism - dad is only an associate at the law firm
And which party was it in Germany that cooperated with the Nazis in order to attack the liberal social democrats? (it was the Communists)
Completely mixed up, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.
TIL Hindenburg was a communist
Rewriting history to own the communists.
There’s a person in that thread unironically praising the atom bombing of Japan as a liberal victory
Do they have no awareness or are they like happily evil
They do. Go to r/noncredibledefense to see it in action.
One of the most demonic subreddits which is really saying something
So, you need to beat them on the level they’re operating on. A funny quip both instantly reveals their “moral superiority” for the self-important moral narcissism it actually is, and also makes you look strong and them look weak in the audience’s eyes.
Of course it’s about moral superiority. It’s not a plain statement of geopolitical reality. We’re just virtue signalling.
There are some fucking takes in there.
Also, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds is a summation of liberal ideology and it’s role within capitalism; liberal rulers will turn to fascism when capitalism begins to fail. They don’t seem to know that’s what it means, and just think it’s a pithy personal insult or something.
Also lol at the guy complaining that commies redefined racism to exclude the yts.
Terminal West Wing brain. Looks like we have to kill them
if this guy tried to be funny i’m pretty sure a crow would swoop down and start pecking at his face
I always find it odd liberals always want to prescibe some sort of morality to Marxism. Are they projecting and trying to pretend evrryone is as evil as they are, so communists just have to be lying about their ideology, so we are “virtue signalling”?
Well, at least they’re self-aware…
It’s very easy to dispell this. … It’s not hidden knowledge that liberalism has been the primary enemy of fascism… I could respond with pages of reasoning and sources.
Or how about just one?
Listen, liberalism is the final realization of the liberty and equality of all people. It was created when by pure chance a few brilliant white men who loved slavery were born, got together and thought really hard for a long time, then realized the eternal moral truths of the universe! The WEST you hate so much came up with this idea, so chew on that. That’s why Hitler loved AUTHORITARIAN BOLSHEVISM and HATED the West (he talks about it in his book).
fuck… it’s so fucking over… fucking dammit…
Redditors just jumping at the bit to reference something that has the n-word in it.
and coincidentally it represents their ideology perfectly. poor? just don’t be!
I remember that video, it’s really racist so big surprise r/neoliberal is a fan.
I think a black nationalist guy made it, but yeah, definitely something for white people to glomp onto and be super racist about.
I’ve read Why Nations Fail…
Pretty fucking light reading with weak and idealistic analysis.
Still better than a lot of neolib shit tho.
Funny enough, I’ll sometimes come across some right-winger whining about gender politics, race-baiting, and cancel culture. Check their profile and they’re power posters on neoliberal and noncredibledefense. But they vote Biden so of course they’re not like those dastardly republicans.
