You’re still stuck at a shallow ERoEI level of analysis. All that gives you is a trend, assuming you’re consistent about the system cut-off.
Just follow the entire production of aluminium starting with mining, transport and processing of bauxite. Including their supply chains. Now do the the same for quartz sand for tempered floatglass. Now the same for silicon. Now the same for copper, polymers, power electronics. Down to the road and the trucks they run on.
And then realize you have to power every single technical process in the entire world on top of that. Does that now ring the bell? Probably not, empirically. I have yet to see a single person to get it after an explanation. Most figure it out on their own, or not at all.
and dont geteme wrong, there are other things to consider than eroei, but solar is generally worth it in those contexts as well. things like mining issues, ecosystem damage, carbon costs, etc. of course those were not what were being looked at in the article, just someone’s first attempt at eroei from first principles without understanding what they were critiquing.
As a fossil extender solar PV and wind is definitely worth it. It is empirically possible to power some sort of society indefinitely with renewable power alone, like for instance Japan during the Edo period, or to do slightly better.
Just not this sort of society. And almost nobody is ready to discuss what that implies.
You’re still stuck at a shallow ERoEI level of analysis. All that gives you is a trend, assuming you’re consistent about the system cut-off.
Just follow the entire production of aluminium starting with mining, transport and processing of bauxite. Including their supply chains. Now do the the same for quartz sand for tempered floatglass. Now the same for silicon. Now the same for copper, polymers, power electronics. Down to the road and the trucks they run on.
And then realize you have to power every single technical process in the entire world on top of that. Does that now ring the bell? Probably not, empirically. I have yet to see a single person to get it after an explanation. Most figure it out on their own, or not at all.
"you’re still stuck on eroei
you need to describes the initial steps of eroei"
and dont geteme wrong, there are other things to consider than eroei, but solar is generally worth it in those contexts as well. things like mining issues, ecosystem damage, carbon costs, etc. of course those were not what were being looked at in the article, just someone’s first attempt at eroei from first principles without understanding what they were critiquing.
As a fossil extender solar PV and wind is definitely worth it. It is empirically possible to power some sort of society indefinitely with renewable power alone, like for instance Japan during the Edo period, or to do slightly better.
Just not this sort of society. And almost nobody is ready to discuss what that implies.
🙄
We don’t seem to be communicating well.