I swear i see this behavior that’s supposedly an early childhood behavior in children 2-5 all the time online. People in team games who seem unable, incapable, not just of cooperating as a team but als unable to recognize cooperation as helpful or desirable.

Currently it’s my going theory as to why some people breeze through helldivers while others suffer great frustration with the game; team players with mediocre skills and basic game knowledge will succeed, while a group of four individuals who do not cooperate, even if each of htem has better shooting skills, movement, or response times, will fail.

And what’s fascinating is the people who seem unable to see and understand that. I’ve played large scale multiplayer games where the devs radically changed the core game experience because a player faction that leveraged team play and cooperation completely dominated other factions despite having, on average, less skilled players. Teamwork and communication were overwhelming force multipliers that the other factions could not overcome to degree that it was driving players away from the game.

My current jones is figuring out what drives a small but extremely vicious group of angry players in helldivers 2 and i think that ultimately, when analyzed from sufficient difference, the problem is a sub-set of players who cannot play cooperatively, do not realize they cannot play cooperatively, and so they feel bullied and persecuted when they fail in a game that requires teamwork and cooperation. For these players, unaware of their inability to cooperate, these failures can only be explained by malicious design choices by the devs. Since they do not or cannot understand that the game requires them to work with others to succeed the only explanation they can come up with is that the devs are attacking them. When a weapon is bugged in a way that allows an individual to bulldoze the game alone this group flocks to it and believes that they must use the weapon bc, from their perspective, that broken weapon is the only possible way to succeed.

They simply do not, maybe can not, understand that other players can and do succeed. They do not seem to see teamwork and do not understand on a conceptual level what teamwork is or what it accomplishes. They can only view the game from the perspective of themselves as an isolated individual.

And, so, when the devs fix a bug in a weapon that caused it to wildly overperform, these players believe they have been attacked for no reason. They were enjoying the game, then the devs maliciously broke their toy, now they cannot enjoy the devs. The only explanation they can conjure is that the devs are persecuting them out of malice.

For months I’ve been completely fascinated by the disparity by what players in online forums say about the game and what i understand about the game’s mechanics and what I observe in the game. Online people will say, with rigid and inflexible certainty, that it is impossible to complete the game without a specific “meta” loadout. They seem completely convinced of this. And the plain fact is that many players are able to breeze through the most challenging content with little difficulty. And the gap seems unbridgable. No amount of evidence will shift some people. Many of them very vocally reject any attempt at education.

It’s a personal concern to me because I do quite well at the game and play at the highest difficulty. Seeing a vocal minority of players demand that the game be made dramatically less complex and less challenging concerns me because if such changes are made I will not be able to enjoy the game. And the devs seem to be taking this minority very seriously and are describing changes they want to make to the game that will fundamentally change it.

And it won’t work. It’s a contradiction. It’s a four player, team oriented game. If it’s simplified to the point where individuals can succeed alone it will not be satisfying to team players. If it’s made to satisfy team players it will not be suitable for loners. The small dev team cannot bridge this gap by creating essentially two separate games to appease each group. And it seems like they’re going to try.

It’s very unfortunate. Part of how i figured this out was a long, somewhat heated discussion with a pair of software engineers about why some people had so much trouble with the game. They put forth various changes to the mechanics of the game, none of which seemed to me to be relevant or to address the problem. They, in turn, were short with me and began speaking like i was a child who couldn’t understanf simple concepts. And eventually a third party pointed out why we couldn’t agree.

They’re software engineers. To them the problem must lie in the software and the solution is to fiddle with it. I’m an anthropologist. I identified the problem as lying in the cultural beliefs and expectations of some players. The changes they were positing would all fail, not because of anything to do with their solutions, but becuase *the player population would never engage with the solutions". That was the gap. They didn’t understand that no matter how they fiddled with things, they were trying to appease a group of people who are completely disinterested in learning or change, and who will not deviate from their behavior the engage with changes in game systems, in-game attempts at education, or tweaks to the parameters of weapons and enemies. They thought i was an idiot who rejected all their proposals because i couldn’t understand the basics of games design, where I identified the problem as lying not within the game but within a subsection of the culture playing the game.

If that conversation sounds extremely frustrating; that’s what being an anthropologist is like all the time. We study culture, and for most people culture is just as invisible and inexplicable as quantum mechanics. It just doesn’t exist for most people and as such it’s excruciating trying to communicate about culture. Stem people especially believe that they’re rational individuals who exist completely by themselves and are quite hard to reach. Culture is soft and squishy, so it must not be real or important. Telling them that this is a cultural belief they hold does nothing to help the matter.

  • riseuppikmin [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    2 months ago

    Many players are disinterested in engaging with/learning about mechanics (including the concept of teamplay) and solely want the entertainment power fantasy that the game superficially (as ive experienced through the marketing material and word-of-mouth I’ve seen/heard for HD2) seems to present itself as (caveat- I haven’t put much time into this particular game).

    The development team will have to pick whether it wants to cater to its team-composition/tactics minded playerbase or its “group solo” players. I bet it will go towards the solos as I imagine they make up a vastly larger portion of the audience because it requires less effort to engage with a game that way and retaining the larger player base is crucial to hit their recurring revenue (mtx) sales that have plagued most game KPIs for years now (especially live-service games).

    It’s sad to me because high-coordination games are easily my favorite multiplayer games, but I think we’ve hit a point where games are going to have to be extremely explicit (including marketing materials) about the necessity of coordinated group play being part of the core game experience in order for that player base to find it and to deter players who aren’t interested in that play style from purchasing it and then trying to change the group gameplay mentality of the game.

    Massive props to games (like Planetside 2 and older Battlefields mentioned in this thread) for organically funneling players into semi-coherent teamplay strategies, but I feel this is substantially harder to achieve from an in-gamr incentives standpoint in solely co-op PvE games. I’d love examples of games that do this well if anyone has any as none really come to mind.

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      2 months ago

      The funny thing about the “power fantasy” crowd; the marketing for the game is intentionally fascist propaganda. If you watch closely the “heroic” helldivers are murdering alien bugs who are minding their own business. The helldivers are stabbing a helpless bug to death with their flag them do a bro-y chest bump while strike fighters fly overhead. In the gameplay video trailers you can see the players blowing each other up by accident a number of times. That’s what let me know the game was going to be a worth successor, on of the trailer players beaning their allies in the head.

      But it’s all silly. It’s propaganda. All the in-game portrayals of the helldivers as unstoppable heroes is a joke. They’re glass cannons with five minutes of training who get thawed out of a cryo tube, fired out of a giant gun at a planet, and die screaming five minutes later when they’re being torn apart by giant bugs and their buddy oopsies a cluster bomb air strike right on top of it.

      It’s a very deliberately, joyfully silly game. You are immensely powerful, you’ve got massive starship guns at your finger tips, but you aim them by throwing a laser baseball around and there are absolutely no safety features so if the baseball bounces off a tree and lands at your feet them you’re boned.

      The game is an open, obvious mockery of Spess Mehrines and the fascistic xenophobic war propaganda military sci-fi genre and so many people just don’t get it.

      • It goes further, in the lore the bugs produce space oil. The bots were used as labor, rebelled, and now exist as robo space communism. The high command refuses to fully win against the bugs because they produce the space oil. They can’t win against the bots because they build fleets with uploaded backups into deep space and whenever they lose their homeworld a reclamation fleet comes out of hibernation. Similar to how the conditions of capitalism always lead to a new workers movement and class consciousness.

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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          2 months ago

          One of the npcs on your ship says something like “the terminids are ruthless expansionists. We’ve discovered them on every world we’ve tried to colonize”.

          It’s a very clever game.