I agree but reality is voting third party is never going to teach DNC anything right now. So long as the GOP exists they will do something dumb again in 4 years. Both major parties are going to support Isreal in some way. Vote the gop out to the void and turn on the DNC next. This way at least maybe women in US won’t risk dying or jail time.
Vote the gop out to the void and turn on the DNC next.
The question I keep asking and get no reply to is, how?
How do we “turn on the DNC next”. In your scenario, we’ve just given them the unequivocal message that they can be assured of our votes no matter what their policies are, even supporting genocide doesn’t loose them votes, so long as the Republicans are worse.
So, by what mechanism do we “turn on the DNC”?
Why would they listen to a single protest, campaign, or speech knowing that their votes are secure no matter what?
DNC already know people only vote for them no matter what because the GOP is the big baddy and not even hiding it. DNC behavior over the years taught me that. Literally nothing the public will do will change their minds. They’ll pop champagne like those wall streeters.
Yeah that’s the kicker. I know this is 100% hopful but in a ideal world GOP eats itself when Trump loses again and the DNC is now effectively replacing the GOP as the conservative party. I will 100% be telling people to vote third party to break the DNC. Of course I thought this would happen in 2020 but Trump rallied the GOP.
DNC need to get what they deserve but I can’t risk my sisters safety over my wants to punish them.
It’s like the anachrist communist meme. Truce until the revolution.
a ideal world GOP eats itself when Trump loses again and the DNC is now effectively replacing the GOP as the conservative party.
Best answer I’ve had yet. I’m not convinced, but at least it’s a plan with an actual mechanism that isn’t contrary to reality.
The reason I’m not convinced is that it would require politics to be far less Machiavellian than it is. All the while it’s in their best interests to have Trump-the-devil as their opponent, they’ll push that narrative, true or not. I think the Democrats will be too scared to push too far to the centre for the very reasons you’ve given, they might loose support to an actual left-wing and their donors simply won’t risk that. The Democrat’s job is to suck energy from actual left-wing campaigns. To do they they need to stay left, but not too left.
And, of course, they need to convince millions of people more progressive than they are, to vote for them regardless because “the other guy…”.
But still, I respect your plan. Hope I’m wrong, and it works.
No-one will vote for Trump instead they will transfer their vote to third party because “accelerating war” and “being pro-genocide” is not what everyone wants from democratic party.
Maybe Dems don’t understand their voters.
Atleast you agree that these votes are important but you should also understand that republicans can get votes by committing “wars and genocides” but dems voters are not comfortable with these things. Dems should acknowledge the demands of their voters.
Harris is not in a position where she can do that until after the election. I’m not arguing that she will or won’t… only that she can’t right now regardless of her actual stance.
I’m not arguing that she will or won’t… only that she can’t right now regardless of her actual stance.
You’re not ‘arguing’ anything at all. You’re just declaring it to be the case with so much as a scrap of evidence offered.
All the evidence provided indicates a sizeable demographic of ex-Democrat voters who would readily vote Democrat again if they changed policy on arms sales.
No polling data from anywhere indicates that keeping arms sales is the key to the swing states.
All polling data that’s been provided indicates that banning arms sales is the key to the swing states.
So what is tying Harris’s hands exactly? Spell it out.
Just because you’re not following the argument nor participating in the conversation doesn’t mean I’m not making one.
Trump will be far worse for Gaza than Harris by every possible measure
For this reason, anyone who cares about Gaza must vote for Harris, no matter how repulsive they might find that choice to be
Harris must beat Trump
To do this Harris needs to take away voters from Trump
Harris coming out against Israel will give voters to Trump, not take them away from Trump
Harris must not come out against Israel before elected or she won’t get elected
Anyone who cares about Gaza and doesn’t vote for Harris doesn’t actually care about Gaza and are just attention seeking, trolling, and/or fucking stupid.
To do this Harris needs to take away voters from Trump
You’ve provided no evidence at all for this, and all the available evidence demonstrates the contrary.
Just declaring things to be the case isn’t an argument. You have to bring evidence to bear.
Harris coming out against Israel will give voters to Trump, not take them away from Trump
Again. No evidence, and all the available evidence is to the contrary.
Harris must not come out against Israel before elected or she won’t get elected
Again, all the evidence given shows the opposite.
The vast majority of Democrat voters and a smaller group of Republican voters want to stop arms sale to Israel.
A huge proportion of key voters in swing states want to stop arms sales to Israel.
Voters angry at the Democrats for not stopping arms sales to Israel are actively saying they will abstain or vote Trump.
No group, poll, or campaign has come out to claim they’ll vote Trump if the Democrats stop arms sales to Israel.
All this evidence supports the view that stopping arms sales to Israel will gain Democrats a massive number of additional votes, some of which will be from otherwise Trump voters.
Well a vice president can’t just change policy against the wishes of the president. Nor do they regularly deviate in public opinion. That’s not something that needs to be looked up.
As to weather she would actually do that, well, only the future knows that.
a vice president can’t just change policy against the wishes of the president. Nor do they regularly deviate in public opinion.
Apologies for my lack of clarity. I was using ‘Harris’ as shorthand for ‘the Harris campaign’. I mean to ask why they wouldn’t change policy… The campaign team.
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Hey mod - why remove my comment?
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I agree but reality is voting third party is never going to teach DNC anything right now. So long as the GOP exists they will do something dumb again in 4 years. Both major parties are going to support Isreal in some way. Vote the gop out to the void and turn on the DNC next. This way at least maybe women in US won’t risk dying or jail time.
The question I keep asking and get no reply to is, how?
How do we “turn on the DNC next”. In your scenario, we’ve just given them the unequivocal message that they can be assured of our votes no matter what their policies are, even supporting genocide doesn’t loose them votes, so long as the Republicans are worse.
So, by what mechanism do we “turn on the DNC”?
Why would they listen to a single protest, campaign, or speech knowing that their votes are secure no matter what?
DNC already know people only vote for them no matter what because the GOP is the big baddy and not even hiding it. DNC behavior over the years taught me that. Literally nothing the public will do will change their minds. They’ll pop champagne like those wall streeters.
Yeah that’s the kicker. I know this is 100% hopful but in a ideal world GOP eats itself when Trump loses again and the DNC is now effectively replacing the GOP as the conservative party. I will 100% be telling people to vote third party to break the DNC. Of course I thought this would happen in 2020 but Trump rallied the GOP. DNC need to get what they deserve but I can’t risk my sisters safety over my wants to punish them. It’s like the anachrist communist meme. Truce until the revolution.
Best answer I’ve had yet. I’m not convinced, but at least it’s a plan with an actual mechanism that isn’t contrary to reality.
The reason I’m not convinced is that it would require politics to be far less Machiavellian than it is. All the while it’s in their best interests to have Trump-the-devil as their opponent, they’ll push that narrative, true or not. I think the Democrats will be too scared to push too far to the centre for the very reasons you’ve given, they might loose support to an actual left-wing and their donors simply won’t risk that. The Democrat’s job is to suck energy from actual left-wing campaigns. To do they they need to stay left, but not too left.
And, of course, they need to convince millions of people more progressive than they are, to vote for them regardless because “the other guy…”.
But still, I respect your plan. Hope I’m wrong, and it works.
No-one will vote for Trump instead they will transfer their vote to third party because “accelerating war” and “being pro-genocide” is not what everyone wants from democratic party. Maybe Dems don’t understand their voters.
Which is implicitly voting for Trump. Again, really fucking stupid.
Atleast you agree that these votes are important but you should also understand that republicans can get votes by committing “wars and genocides” but dems voters are not comfortable with these things. Dems should acknowledge the demands of their voters.
Harris is not in a position where she can do that until after the election. I’m not arguing that she will or won’t… only that she can’t right now regardless of her actual stance.
You’re not ‘arguing’ anything at all. You’re just declaring it to be the case with so much as a scrap of evidence offered.
All the evidence provided indicates a sizeable demographic of ex-Democrat voters who would readily vote Democrat again if they changed policy on arms sales.
No polling data from anywhere indicates that keeping arms sales is the key to the swing states.
All polling data that’s been provided indicates that banning arms sales is the key to the swing states.
So what is tying Harris’s hands exactly? Spell it out.
Just because you’re not following the argument nor participating in the conversation doesn’t mean I’m not making one.
Anyone who cares about Gaza and doesn’t vote for Harris doesn’t actually care about Gaza and are just attention seeking, trolling, and/or fucking stupid.
You’ve provided no evidence at all for this, and all the available evidence demonstrates the contrary.
Just declaring things to be the case isn’t an argument. You have to bring evidence to bear.
Again. No evidence, and all the available evidence is to the contrary.
Again, all the evidence given shows the opposite.
The vast majority of Democrat voters and a smaller group of Republican voters want to stop arms sale to Israel.
A huge proportion of key voters in swing states want to stop arms sales to Israel.
Voters angry at the Democrats for not stopping arms sales to Israel are actively saying they will abstain or vote Trump.
No group, poll, or campaign has come out to claim they’ll vote Trump if the Democrats stop arms sales to Israel.
All this evidence supports the view that stopping arms sales to Israel will gain Democrats a massive number of additional votes, some of which will be from otherwise Trump voters.
You’ve provided no evidence to the contrary.
Well a vice president can’t just change policy against the wishes of the president. Nor do they regularly deviate in public opinion. That’s not something that needs to be looked up.
As to weather she would actually do that, well, only the future knows that.
Apologies for my lack of clarity. I was using ‘Harris’ as shorthand for ‘the Harris campaign’. I mean to ask why they wouldn’t change policy… The campaign team.