L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.

Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.

Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.

Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.

Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.

Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      16 days ago

      From a google translate of the post, it looks like general vague slander from OP, even other instance users are asking for examples from OP.

      The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).

      • Blaze@lemmy.zip
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        16 days ago

        Yeah, it has been pointed out below indeed.

        On the other hand, while OP should indeed provide answers, why would HappyBadger accuse this instance of being fascist? OP only made a proposition, and other instance members immediately asked for evidence to support that proposal.

        • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          16 days ago

          You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.

          I accused this user of being a fascist. If 12 people are seated at a table with 1 fascist, tell me how many fascists are seated at that table.

          This user is a fascist because they’re doing the same generic anticommunism routine that all of the right-wing forums do. Create an anticommunist hysteria around a nonsensical boogeyman, widen the net as the next person they disagree with is also part of the sneaky non-white conspiracy against them, ratchet the community rightward. That specific process is why reddit is reddit. If someone’s doing the same old trick on the Fediverse, I don’t care if it’s this forum with 8 monthly users I’ve never seen before or Lemmy.world/Lemm.ee with fresh content feeds. It attracts the same people and ends in the same place.

          This goober thinks they’re being gangstalked by Russian spies because someone on the internet disagreed with 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝒾𝓇 𝓅𝑜𝓈𝒾𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃. Before you clutch your pearls about me calling them a fascist, the first question you should be asking is what that position is and what’s so offensive about the Hexbear stance on it. Generally if we hate someone or something there’s a pretty good reason for it.

          • anansi@jlai.luM
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            16 days ago

            Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.

            Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.

            • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              16 days ago

              You’ve convinced everyone with an attention span too short to read their comment and believe they can get the gist by reading the shorter response.

              Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.

              Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.

              • anansi@jlai.luM
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                16 days ago

                Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.

                The point is that there is no argument in the first place, no one here intends to defederate from hexbear, and you and your mates coming here aggressively and acting like unhinged assholes unprompted in a meta-instance discussion does not help.

                This post is just OP having his jimmies rumbled and asking if because of it if can cut one of the oldest instance from our fedlist.

                • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  15 days ago

                  For someone now saying there isn’t an argument, you sure did use three consecutive angry adjectives in the same sentence to respond to their comment.

                  You’ve got quite the imbalance of nerve and self reflection, crying about people being aggressive and acting like unhinged assholes after how you just acted.

                  All you do is illustrate how profoundly meaningless your words are. You use the same invective to someone being reasonable as you do someone scolding you.

                  • anansi@jlai.luM
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                    15 days ago

                    For someone now saying there isn’t an argument, you sure did use three consecutive angry adjectives in the same sentence to respond to their comment.

                    You’ve got quite the imbalance of nerve and self reflection, crying about people being aggressive and acting like unhinged assholes after how you just acted.

                    You should have realized that I adapt my tone to the one I respond to, by like, reading?

                    All you do is illustrate how profoundly meaningless your words are. You use the same invective to someone being reasonable as you do someone scolding you.

                    I don’t think we have the same definition of reasonable, might have been lost in translation I guess.

              • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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                16 days ago

                Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.

                Ah oui quand même excuse me wtf

                • pseudo@jlai.lu
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                  15 days ago

                  J’ai pas vu d’aussi beau troll depuis des années. Faut dire que je suis devenu bon à les éviter mais notre pauvre admin vient de se prendre celui en plein le coin de l’œil.

                  • Snoopy@jlai.lu
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                    15 days ago

                    “Pauvre” admin. C’est un des meilleurs ippon de jlai.lu, un Teddy Reiner, amha ça le gonfle et l’amuse 😁

            • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              16 days ago

              Everyone I don’t agree with is on drugs (which makes them an inferior person not worth listening to), a definitely-not-fascist bedtime story for smug internet liberals.

              • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                15 days ago

                To be fair I’d love to write ketamine-fueled rants but it costs like $500 for a dose here. The best I can offer is coffee and sometimes-cannabis-fueled.

              • anansi@jlai.luM
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                16 days ago

                Not only do I disagree with OP and therefore agree with with your mate, but I don’t have any issue with drug use.

                My issue is with the fact that ketamine fulled drivel is not the best way to communicate with people and be correctly understood, speaking from experience.

                • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  16 days ago

                  Nah, that’s the kind of weak dodge I would use back when I was a liberal casually saying ghoulish dork shit. If you use “ur prolly on drugs lol” to dismiss the argument of someone who is speaking with perfect clarity, you’re just being a little snotty fuck looking for any excuse not to take in scary new information that might make you feel bad.

            • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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              16 days ago

              Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.

              etchebest qui souffle

              Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.

              👍

              • hector@sh.itjust.works
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                10 days ago

                Je suis sûr une instance où il y a pleins de communistes et anarchistes et franchement, c’est toujours LA KETAMINE

                Ils adorent ça je comprends pas. Je te promets, traîne un peu avec eux et tu verras que la kétamine est leur carburant.

                Pas de problème avec ça mais c’est trop drôle ahaha. Ça les rend imprévisibles et parfois ils font vraiment preuve de mauvaise fois.

                J’ai jamais eu de problèmes avec eux donc je ne sais pas si c’est juste une chambre d’écho honnêtement !

            • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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              15 days ago

              ketamine fulled diatribe

              Everyone that disagrees with me must be on drugs or a russian puppet or mentally ill.

              Fuck all the way off. Go ahead defederate, clearly nothing of value is lost.

            • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              16 days ago

              Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.

              Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.

              I already said I want to defederate with you. You get a pass on engaging with this comment because English is your second language.

                • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  16 days ago

                  I would have made my own post first but didn’t know you exist until this post. Then I agreed with it. A more apt analogy would be getting a random text saying “I’m breaking up with you” and replying “ok”.

                  • anansi@jlai.luM
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                    16 days ago

                    An actually apt analogy would be one of your theater club mate receiving a text advising to leave the theater club because it’s full of dubious people, your mate saying “lol no”, and you sending a 10 pages pamphlet to the friend sending the text accusing them to be a fascist, completely unprompted.

              • anansi@jlai.luM
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                14 days ago

                Either you believe this term was coined after internet forums started existing, or you’re talking about me writing wrongly “tankie” as “tanky”, which I only did because I have to write in a second language to people too busy licking boots to learn a language different than english.

                In both case it’s pretty cringe.

                • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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                  14 days ago

                  The only people who use the word “tankie” in 2024 are terminally online. You are terminally online (you’re a mod on a tiny internet forum!) and are trying to call others terminally online.

                  • anansi@jlai.luM
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                    14 days ago

                    You should try discussing with actual leftist that are not authoritarian cosplayers, far more common in these groups!

          • Blaze@lemmy.zip
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            16 days ago

            You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.

            I asked Cowbee because we had been discussing recently how interactions between Hexbear and other instances sometimes play out, so I thought it would be relevant to have their perspective on this example.

            About the rest of your arguments, seems to have been addressed in this comment: https://hexbear.net/post/3694795/5510986

          • FlorianSimon@sh.itjust.works
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            15 days ago

            Wake up babe, anticommunism is everywhere, not just on right-wing forums. Your point that it’s only fascists being against communism is frankly quite stupid.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          16 days ago

          The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).

          The comment accused the user of fascism, not necessarily the instance.

          • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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            16 days ago

            Hello,

            Thank you for commenting here.
            The linked post is there for context, no decision was made at the time, we remained federated with hexbear. We are going to ask the author of that post to edit it.

            For OP, not sure if things got lost in translation, but their point was that “Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc… I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance.”

            So the CPC theories are irrelevant, as OP is strictly referring about brigading

            Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              16 days ago

              I have no interest in debating the broader issue, but your bolding here is silly:

              Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc…

              The idea of us being connected to either group is a harebrained conspiracy theory, so I think speaking of it as though it is credible while saying you won’t talk about it is classic apophasis, i.e. a rhetorical device for making insinuations about something you want to denigrate while dodging responsibility for doing so.

              • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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                16 days ago

                Do you think things would have happened differently if OP has just said “I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance” ?

                • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  16 days ago

                  I think there are multiple things one can complain about, I was simply objecting to your minimizing one of them. I think even within that modified statement there is malicious (or perhaps self-victimizing) mischaracterization, but I don’t feel like arguing about the other statements as others can probably do just as good a job and have more enthusiasm than I do for endlessly re-addressing the same complaints, which increasingly feels to me like the main dealing Hexbear has with liberal comms.

                • inlandempire@jlai.lu
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                  15 days ago

                  Citation dont je partage la pensée en lisant ce thread mdr, quelle bande de bachi-bouzouks

                  • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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                    15 days ago

                    Attention, toi aussi tu fais parti de l’instance facho, c’est bien connu 😂

                    On passe notre temps à parler de sujets de gauche, à promouvoir les initiatives de gauche, à critiquer Macron, le RN et toute la clique, mais les mecs ils débarquent et hop, ils savent tout. Franchement ça me fume comment c’est dingue.

                    Je devrais tag l’utilisateur avec Gauche dans son nom, il apprécierait sûrement.

                    Après attention, bachi-bouzouk -> le Capitaine Haddock -> Hergé -> le Congo, cqfd!

                    Enfin…

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              16 days ago

              That adds clarification. My understanding is that interaction between this instance and Hexbear is limited to begin with due to the French language barrier, ergo brigading doesn’t make sense as a defederation reason, but this isn’t my instance. I do have a Hexbear account, so obviously I am pro-Hexbear.

              Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.

              Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.

              • anansi@jlai.luM
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                16 days ago

                Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.

                It’s been a while that I’ve read it but iirc that’s not what is described in the book due to the difference in intent.

                Anticommunism is born from the ruling/fascist adjacent class to misled less politicized people by manufacturing false consciousness. While anticommunism materialistically helps capitalism and fascism, this is not the intent of the anticommunists, while it is the overt goal of the fascists.

                A dumbass being anticommunist because of gaslighting is fundamentally different from someone being an actual fascist. The former will still be able to change his mind, the latter won’t because it’s usually coming from it’s material interest.

                Saying they are twins is not only a misleading, but it also hides the different mechanisms between anticommunism and fascism.

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  16 days ago

                  Fascism is Capitalism in decay. As Capitalism decays, Communist sentiment rises, and Capitalism employs its defensive mechanism, fascism, against it. The largest sources of anticommunism come from the same place as fascism, they aren’t the same, but they are twins. That’s my point.

          • FlorianSimon@sh.itjust.works
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            15 days ago

            MAGAtard could be related to French droitard, with no relation to the English word “retard”. -ard is a common suffix for adjectives in French (cf hagard, laïcard, fêtard…) and it has nothing to do with English slurs.

            It could also be a slur. I asked the author to clarify.

    • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      16 days ago

      Oh! Let me guess what your problem with that comment is!

      “Pointing out racism is uncivil and deserves undivided scorn” i-am-adolf-hitler

      My guess is influenced by the fact that there isn’t much else to have a problem with