Also that quote in both the bible and the qur’an about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven; at least as far back as the 10th century, rich Christians have argued that there is a gate in jerusalem called “eye of the needle” and that’s what the quote refers to. To this day some US christians believe this; there was never any such gate of course.
I heard this one growing up. It was one of many examples that made me realize the version of fundamentalism I grew up was bullshit. We were taught the Bible was literal truth, no metaphors or interpretation allowed, but were also taught weird theories like this. Even as a kid it was obvious we were still just picking and choosing what to believe
I was taught this at one point (though I’m not Christian), but isn’t the existence of such a gate irrelevant since the meaning of the phrase is unchanged? Like, either way, the point is that a camel is too big to get through the thing.
The way I heard it IIRC their justification is the gate is small but not that small so it’s a bit hard to get a camel through but not, you know, that hard and definitely not impossible
“Peace, love, God, but also have you seen that oddly named gate? It’s crazy small! Like, a camel could probably get through, but it’d be tough. This is like a rich man going to heaven for some reason”
If you really want to go for a loop on this point, Eckhart Tolle has this theory that Jesus’ whole shtick was present moment awareness misinterpreted through the ages. When it comes to this line in particular, he had lectured to the effect that a rich man is a person who has abundant thoughts and therefore any attempt to find peace, God nature, cessation of mind made suffering, etc. is futile because you can’t stop the mind machine from spinning. You’d have an easier time getting a camel through the eye of a needle than to think your way out of suffering.
I honestly like this interpretation and then I’d follow up saying that the bible would be a poor piece of theory for communist revolution. For every piece of Jesus kicking out merchants and line like this, you could find some cringe that has nothing to do with anything.
Not only does it have pieces about nothing to do with anything, it also has parts about laying down and taking it on the chin because there’s pie in the sky when you die.
Just because you have to work with Christians doesn’t mean you have to support Christianity. Liberation theology is seven people and their dogs and is a perfect example of trying to “fix” Christianity
love to discount marxist theology because they have a small number of followers today after they they were brutally murdered by the capitalists. damn I wonder why there are so few indonesian communists around today. liberation theology is very popular in latin america, and its influence is still felt in black american churches. jeremiah wright had to step down from his church for daring to speak out during obama’s presidency run. cornell west is literally running for president right now. it is a popular movement to struggle against the dominance of capitalism within christianity, and it should be supported and commended
They were brutally murdered for being communists. They would have been murdered regardless of their faith. I’m not shunning Christians but you’re not gonna get me to support Christianity.
Christianity wants me dead, it explicitly says that in their holy book. Find me a Christian that says the Bible is wrong. I’ve spent decades dealing with Christians who weren’t afraid to make that known to me, so excuse me if I’m not all sunshine and flowers about it.
You have to work religion into progressive politics currently because it’s a practical necessity. I’m not a utopian so I accept that it’s the reality.
There are plenty of Christians that disagree with the Bible. The historic church has given a lot of room for errors in the Bible, factual or otherwise. Fundamentalists removed that freedom in the 20th century, and that version of Christianity became the vehicle that the Moral Majority road to power due to its virulent racism, opposite to desegregation, and misogyny. More to the point, I don’t even know what it looks like to “support” an ancient, multifaceted religion with so many branches, beliefs, and billions of adherents. I like China and the DPRK’s stance on Christianity within its borders-- highly regulated by its adherents but overlooked for outside influences by the state.
But most importantly, I am sorry that you experienced discrimination and/or death threats, comrade. My experience is similar, and it sucks.
At the end of the day, Jesus (or the writings that his cringier followers left behind since I would like to think the historical Jesus was a lot cooler than what was in the Bible) would rather blame a bunch of collaborator Jews than the Roman oppressors who have their sandals on the Judeans’ collective throats. It’s very hard to read his trial with Pilate in the Gospel and not see how the received text constantly tries to downplay Pilate’s role in Jesus’s torture and execution, never mind that Pilate was a colonizer governor who could simply free Jesus with a snap of his fingers and crucify the entire crowd with another snap of his finger since as Roman governor, he had an entire Roman legion under his command. Who were the Pharisees going to complain to, the Emperor himself?
The Zealots were easily the coolest Jewish factions because unlike the Christians, Pharisees, and Sadducees, they understood who the enemy was and actually tried to do something to rid the people of Judea of the Roman yoke. Sadly, they failed in their historic task, and the surviving Christians and Pharisees would go on to spit on their graves for daring to free themselves.
he had lectured to the effect that a rich man is a person who has abundant thoughts
nope it’s extremely clearly in context talking about a person rich in actual stuff and the message is that having tonnes of stuff while others have nothing is bad
Also that quote in both the bible and the qur’an about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven; at least as far back as the 10th century, rich Christians have argued that there is a gate in jerusalem called “eye of the needle” and that’s what the quote refers to. To this day some US christians believe this; there was never any such gate of course.
I heard this one growing up. It was one of many examples that made me realize the version of fundamentalism I grew up was bullshit. We were taught the Bible was literal truth, no metaphors or interpretation allowed, but were also taught weird theories like this. Even as a kid it was obvious we were still just picking and choosing what to believe
I was taught this at one point (though I’m not Christian), but isn’t the existence of such a gate irrelevant since the meaning of the phrase is unchanged? Like, either way, the point is that a camel is too big to get through the thing.
The way I heard it IIRC their justification is the gate is small but not that small so it’s a bit hard to get a camel through but not, you know, that hard and definitely not impossible
Why would he even say this then though lol
“Peace, love, God, but also have you seen that oddly named gate? It’s crazy small! Like, a camel could probably get through, but it’d be tough. This is like a rich man going to heaven for some reason”
If you really want to go for a loop on this point, Eckhart Tolle has this theory that Jesus’ whole shtick was present moment awareness misinterpreted through the ages. When it comes to this line in particular, he had lectured to the effect that a rich man is a person who has abundant thoughts and therefore any attempt to find peace, God nature, cessation of mind made suffering, etc. is futile because you can’t stop the mind machine from spinning. You’d have an easier time getting a camel through the eye of a needle than to think your way out of suffering.
I honestly like this interpretation and then I’d follow up saying that the bible would be a poor piece of theory for communist revolution. For every piece of Jesus kicking out merchants and line like this, you could find some cringe that has nothing to do with anything.
Not only does it have pieces about nothing to do with anything, it also has parts about laying down and taking it on the chin because there’s pie in the sky when you die.
Getting real tired of the western leftist desire to salvage christianity
probably not a good idea to throw aside the majority of humanity and liberation theology
Just because you have to work with Christians doesn’t mean you have to support Christianity. Liberation theology is seven people and their dogs and is a perfect example of trying to “fix” Christianity
love to discount marxist theology because they have a small number of followers today after they they were brutally murdered by the capitalists. damn I wonder why there are so few indonesian communists around today. liberation theology is very popular in latin america, and its influence is still felt in black american churches. jeremiah wright had to step down from his church for daring to speak out during obama’s presidency run. cornell west is literally running for president right now. it is a popular movement to struggle against the dominance of capitalism within christianity, and it should be supported and commended
They were brutally murdered for being communists. They would have been murdered regardless of their faith. I’m not shunning Christians but you’re not gonna get me to support Christianity.
Christianity wants me dead, it explicitly says that in their holy book. Find me a Christian that says the Bible is wrong. I’ve spent decades dealing with Christians who weren’t afraid to make that known to me, so excuse me if I’m not all sunshine and flowers about it.
You have to work religion into progressive politics currently because it’s a practical necessity. I’m not a utopian so I accept that it’s the reality.
There are plenty of Christians that disagree with the Bible. The historic church has given a lot of room for errors in the Bible, factual or otherwise. Fundamentalists removed that freedom in the 20th century, and that version of Christianity became the vehicle that the Moral Majority road to power due to its virulent racism, opposite to desegregation, and misogyny. More to the point, I don’t even know what it looks like to “support” an ancient, multifaceted religion with so many branches, beliefs, and billions of adherents. I like China and the DPRK’s stance on Christianity within its borders-- highly regulated by its adherents but overlooked for outside influences by the state.
But most importantly, I am sorry that you experienced discrimination and/or death threats, comrade. My experience is similar, and it sucks.
At the end of the day, Jesus (or the writings that his cringier followers left behind since I would like to think the historical Jesus was a lot cooler than what was in the Bible) would rather blame a bunch of collaborator Jews than the Roman oppressors who have their sandals on the Judeans’ collective throats. It’s very hard to read his trial with Pilate in the Gospel and not see how the received text constantly tries to downplay Pilate’s role in Jesus’s torture and execution, never mind that Pilate was a colonizer governor who could simply free Jesus with a snap of his fingers and crucify the entire crowd with another snap of his finger since as Roman governor, he had an entire Roman legion under his command. Who were the Pharisees going to complain to, the Emperor himself?
The Zealots were easily the coolest Jewish factions because unlike the Christians, Pharisees, and Sadducees, they understood who the enemy was and actually tried to do something to rid the people of Judea of the Roman yoke. Sadly, they failed in their historic task, and the surviving Christians and Pharisees would go on to spit on their graves for daring to free themselves.
nope it’s extremely clearly in context talking about a person rich in actual stuff and the message is that having tonnes of stuff while others have nothing is bad
personally I think being rich is incompatible with Christianity because wealth messes with your head and makes it harder to empathise with people and also the fact that rich people have money and resources that really would be better used making sure everyone has a roof and enough to eat etc