Well I’m pretty careful when I use the acronym. Personally I consider myself, and support “LGBT”. There’s an “LGB” movement that I find myself aligned with, albeit disagreeing with. Then there are the people who use “LGBTQ” or “LGBTQIA” and other such things, and I find myself opposed to them.
ive never heard any transgender or transsexual person in my life not support the other or say they dont exist but Ive only had a handful in my life at different times so you probably know more about the community… just be supportive and accepting and your alright in my book.
Yes, it’s unfortunately the case that on this topic there’s a few different worldviews/beliefs and they contradict each other, which leads to a lot of hostility and upset feelings in both directions. I agree that we should try to be kind, understanding, and supportive. But to do that means I need to disagree with some worldviews that may end up hurting some people’s feelings.
nd honestly Ive never once heard what you are saying come out of any transgender or transsexual friends mouths your the first Ive heard of it… very confused on why someone would say you don’t exist cause you do
The issue is because many people with transvestism conditions identify themselves as “transgender” and hold the belief that they have a “gender identity” that differs from their natal sex. In many cases they argue that this is due to having an oppositely sexed brain. The problem is that that view is simply untrue. There are sexed brains, and there are people with oppositely sexed brains, but that condition is transsexualism, not transvestism. And so these transgender/transvestite people try to argue it applies to them, and then deny that people outside of their situation (namely transsexuals) exist.
One of their big ideas involves “gender dysphoria”. They believe that gender dysphoria arises due to the sex of the brain differing from the sex of the body, and thus dysphoria results. However, transsexuals like myself prove this to be untrue; as we do not experience “gender dysphoria” (or any other transvestism symptom) at any point.
Due to this, these people often start saying I’m “not actually trans” or that I’m “being a bigot” or that I “actually do have such symptoms and am lying/mistaken” and so on. a very hostile response.
I’d really like there to be some mutual understanding and arrival of views, but I don’t think it’s likely the way things are going…
One of their big ideas involves “gender dysphoria”. They believe that gender dysphoria arises due to the sex of the brain differing from the sex of the body, and thus dysphoria results. However, transsexuals like myself prove this to be untrue; as we do not experience “gender dysphoria” (or any other transvestism symptom) at any point.
As a cis dude I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but that’s not great reasoning. Gender dysphoria could very well be a thing that many people experience, just not you or other (many? most?) transvestites.
I’m not going around saying “I’m not gay therefore gay people must not exist”, it’s absurd. I’m not gay, most people are not gay, but homosexuality is absolutely a thing that exists.
Right. Gender Dysphoria is a real, medically recognized, issue that many people suffer from. I don’t deny that at all. Rather, the issue comes from the transgender movement’s claims about what causes gender dysphoria (how it arises in a person).
Transsexuals do not experience gender dysphoria. We just don’t. That isn’t saying it doesn’t exist. It’s not saying it’s not a real thing people suffer from. It’s not saying that it shouldn’t be treated. Only that, for transsexuals, we do not experience that symptom or issue.
So to then declare that gender dysphoria is caused by a brain/sex conflict, is to essentially deny that transsexuals, who have medically transitioned, exist. Because we transitioned and do not experience dysphoria either before or after medical treatment.
It’s a bit like someone going around saying “I chose to be gay, therefore being gay is a choice and has no underlying feelings/urges/etc about it”. Like maybe your situation yes you chose something, but that is unrelated to what people usually mean when they speak of homosexuality.
Hopefully that makes sense. So in my speech I make sure to clarify that gender dysphoria is a symptom of what is medically known as transvestism conditions (dual role transvestism often called genderfluid, autogynephili, and gender identity disorder). These are real medical conditions and actually have gender dysphoria as a symptom.
Transsexualism is also a medical condition, but this medical condition does not have gender dysphoria as a symptom. So if you have gender dysphoria, you don’t have transsexualism, but instead some other condition.
To clarify between these medical conditions isn’t hate speech. it’s not denying someone exists. It’s not saying they shouldn’t get the help they need. It’s not saying they shouldn’t be supported. It’s simply saying that their situation is different from the situation that I have (called transsexualism), and that we should clarify that they are different.
I think I understand what you’re saying. I’m not very deeply knowledgeable about the topic. But by giving all the attention to gender dysphoria and having transgender people suck all the oxygen out of the room, actions meant to help transgender people can (unintentionally or perhaps intentionally) harm transsexuals? And you’re particularly angry at the modern LGBTQ+++ movement for supporting and even embracing the words and actions that harm transsexuals? Am I understanding your viewpoint?
Well I’m pretty careful when I use the acronym. Personally I consider myself, and support “LGBT”. There’s an “LGB” movement that I find myself aligned with, albeit disagreeing with. Then there are the people who use “LGBTQ” or “LGBTQIA” and other such things, and I find myself opposed to them.
Yes, it’s unfortunately the case that on this topic there’s a few different worldviews/beliefs and they contradict each other, which leads to a lot of hostility and upset feelings in both directions. I agree that we should try to be kind, understanding, and supportive. But to do that means I need to disagree with some worldviews that may end up hurting some people’s feelings.
The issue is because many people with transvestism conditions identify themselves as “transgender” and hold the belief that they have a “gender identity” that differs from their natal sex. In many cases they argue that this is due to having an oppositely sexed brain. The problem is that that view is simply untrue. There are sexed brains, and there are people with oppositely sexed brains, but that condition is transsexualism, not transvestism. And so these transgender/transvestite people try to argue it applies to them, and then deny that people outside of their situation (namely transsexuals) exist.
One of their big ideas involves “gender dysphoria”. They believe that gender dysphoria arises due to the sex of the brain differing from the sex of the body, and thus dysphoria results. However, transsexuals like myself prove this to be untrue; as we do not experience “gender dysphoria” (or any other transvestism symptom) at any point.
Due to this, these people often start saying I’m “not actually trans” or that I’m “being a bigot” or that I “actually do have such symptoms and am lying/mistaken” and so on. a very hostile response.
I’d really like there to be some mutual understanding and arrival of views, but I don’t think it’s likely the way things are going…
As a cis dude I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but that’s not great reasoning. Gender dysphoria could very well be a thing that many people experience, just not you or other (many? most?) transvestites.
I’m not going around saying “I’m not gay therefore gay people must not exist”, it’s absurd. I’m not gay, most people are not gay, but homosexuality is absolutely a thing that exists.
Right. Gender Dysphoria is a real, medically recognized, issue that many people suffer from. I don’t deny that at all. Rather, the issue comes from the transgender movement’s claims about what causes gender dysphoria (how it arises in a person).
Transsexuals do not experience gender dysphoria. We just don’t. That isn’t saying it doesn’t exist. It’s not saying it’s not a real thing people suffer from. It’s not saying that it shouldn’t be treated. Only that, for transsexuals, we do not experience that symptom or issue.
So to then declare that gender dysphoria is caused by a brain/sex conflict, is to essentially deny that transsexuals, who have medically transitioned, exist. Because we transitioned and do not experience dysphoria either before or after medical treatment.
It’s a bit like someone going around saying “I chose to be gay, therefore being gay is a choice and has no underlying feelings/urges/etc about it”. Like maybe your situation yes you chose something, but that is unrelated to what people usually mean when they speak of homosexuality.
Hopefully that makes sense. So in my speech I make sure to clarify that gender dysphoria is a symptom of what is medically known as transvestism conditions (dual role transvestism often called genderfluid, autogynephili, and gender identity disorder). These are real medical conditions and actually have gender dysphoria as a symptom.
Transsexualism is also a medical condition, but this medical condition does not have gender dysphoria as a symptom. So if you have gender dysphoria, you don’t have transsexualism, but instead some other condition.
To clarify between these medical conditions isn’t hate speech. it’s not denying someone exists. It’s not saying they shouldn’t get the help they need. It’s not saying they shouldn’t be supported. It’s simply saying that their situation is different from the situation that I have (called transsexualism), and that we should clarify that they are different.
I think I understand what you’re saying. I’m not very deeply knowledgeable about the topic. But by giving all the attention to gender dysphoria and having transgender people suck all the oxygen out of the room, actions meant to help transgender people can (unintentionally or perhaps intentionally) harm transsexuals? And you’re particularly angry at the modern LGBTQ+++ movement for supporting and even embracing the words and actions that harm transsexuals? Am I understanding your viewpoint?