Pope Francis condemned the "very strong, organised, reactionary attitude" in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

  • Redditiscancer789@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    10 months ago

    That’s not what the story of job is about even if you are entitled to your own interpretation(which goes back to my original point about why it’s all left to interpretation.) Job wasn’t punished because he didn’t pay attention to Satan. Satan was the little imp on his shoulder telling him all these things about how God isn’t righteous and he has forsaken him. It all started simply because God bragged about how devout and awesome Job was for following his teachings to Satan and Satan said “yeah well you got it all wrong, he only is so devout because you’ve rewarded him. Take away his rewards and he shall hate you.” And Job did for a while before the age old bull shit about having ‘faith’ came into play at the end where he just basically accepts he’s a Stoopid wittle hoomen who can’t understand God’s grand plan…which as we know as the person granted insight into God’s thinking, was a literal pissing contest between the devil.

    As for placebo effects, I never commented on the effects being good or bad on their own, all I commented on is that just because they are a by product of participating in the ritual, they aren’t the goal of the ritual.

    • barsoap
      1·
      10 months ago

      That’s not what the story of job is about

      Yeah I’m not a fan of Christianity, the sensible interpretations are buried below layers and layers of apologetics, it’s never straight forward and the obvious interpretations are often right-out dangerous. But other religions would describe the crisis of faith motive more in the way that I described.

      they aren’t the goal of the ritual.

      According to whom. The purpose of a system is what it does. If an ancient Roman had relationship trouble and went to temple and underwent some rituals and then regularly gave offerings in private to the respective gods and it helped their marriage then it doesn’t matter what they believed in, their reproductive success still increased. Darwin doesn’t care what you believe, what matters is fitness. Heck I wouldn’t be surprised if those temple rituals were overall more effective than modern-day marriage counselling.

      • Redditiscancer789@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        10 months ago

        According to the people who made the rituals, it’s clearly laid out in several different religious books what the entire purpose of the rituals within said book are for. Just because you experience a side effects doesn’t make the side effect the purpose.

        • barsoap
          1·
          10 months ago

          The books describe how those people conceptualise things, not what the rituals are for, systemically speaking. As said: The purpose of a system is what it does. Try as hard as you might you won’t get me to blaspheme cybernetics.

          Are you really comfortable claiming that those conceptual frameworks aren’t post-hoc rationalisation? “Oh I found myself doing XYZ which doesn’t have discernible physical utility, but I also connect it to things working out well recently, it must be because there’s some greater power I can reach in those ways, and this is how I imagine those powers to be”. To me that sounds like an excellent null hypothesis.

          I actually think we agree this far. The point of contention is whether we should throw out the baby with the bathwater.