I noticed that when I attempt to subscribe to beehaw subs, it seems to be stuck on pending. This has been the case for a couple hours now. Is this expected behavior? I think I read somewhere that beehaw was defederating. Perhaps this is the reason it’s not working?
Not anymore, at least for (an unspecified) while. See https://lemmy.world/post/149743.
In short, beehaw is having trouble moderating there communities, and defederated several of the biggest Lemmy instances just to cut down on moderation volume. It’s was an incredibly short-sighted thing to do, and will make the lemmyverse a much more confusing place for the foreseeable future, but it’s within their power to do.
Yeah, you won’t be able to. Basically, lemmy.world won’t be able to see new posts on beehaw, and vice versa.
Except I can see a new post from Beehaw. I’m having a conversation with somebody on a Beehaw community right now.
It seems the catch here may be that they are a Mastodon user. I guess Beehaw is still federated with their instance and so are we, so I can still see their content as if it were from Beehaw and we can comment to each other there!? But I guess if any Beehaw users join in, I’ll not be able to see their comments and they’ll not be able to see mine?
It’s quite odd, interesting and confusing.
Oh my! I can imagine this will hurt bees more than the rest of us, because they will read discussions with some comments missing just because the commenter happened to be from lemmy.world or other blocked instances.
yes. so from beehaw’s perspective they have no access to lemmyworld communities (like how lemmyworld lacks beehaw communities). On other instances, like kbin magazines, beehaw users will be unable to see lemmyworld comments, and thus be “missing” comments and posts. so beehaw is definitely “hurt” more by this in terms of their content accessibility.
however, beehaw sees this as a positive and a benefit, not as a negative, because they don’t want to see lemmyworld content.
however, beehaw sees this as a positive and a benefit, not as a negative, because they don’t want to see lemmyworld content.
That’s their right. Not every instance have to be interconnected to everything.
(like how lemmyworld lacks beehaw communities).
If only that were the case. the trouble is, for users on lemmy.world, if they look at commuties, 4 of the top 9 they can “subscribe” to are Beehaw communities.
They can even access and post on those communities, unaware that they have been put in a wee walled garden by beehaw…
Unfortunately the only solution to that at this time would be lemmy.world clicking the defederate with beehaw button
yeah, how lemmy.world decides to respond is up to them. defederating would also mean not seeing beehaw comments outside of beehaw (and similarly hiding all of the non-beehaw replies to those beehaw comments).
Yeah, seems like that’ll be the case 😲. This explains it quite well: https://lemmy.world/post/149743
as a lemmyworld user, you are not getting updates from beehaw. they blocked you. beehaw people should not be seeing your posts at all.
Isn’t it also the case that each instance gets updates from all others? So in this case, lemmy.world’s access to beehaw communities might lack user@beehaw.org activity and beehaw’s access lacks user@lemmy.world activity?
But I also believe lemmy.world can see old beehaw stuff from before the defed, so that could play a role. I’m really just trying to wrap my head around all the network effects and repercussions, its confusing as hell.
Edit: There’s this comment that explains things pretty well, in case anyone is curious: https://lemmy.world/comment/205763 – sounds like all updates go to and eventually come from the instance holding a community, so if you’re defederated from them, you only see federated cross-posts in a sense. At that point I think there are different comment sections altogether.
I’m 110% sure I’m still misunderstanding something, for what it’s worth lmao
Isn’t it also the case that each instance gets updates from all others? So in this case, lemmy.world’s access to beehaw communities might lack user@beehaw.org activity and beehaw’s access lacks user@lemmy.world activity?
I’ve seen conflicting info on this. It seems to be the case that beehaw’s communities are hosted by beehaw as the “true version” which is synced with everyone else. In this regard, lemmyworld is blocked as beehaw will not send the “true version” of the community to lemmyworld. As for whether lemmyworld can get the “true version” from another instance? I don’t know. Lemmyworld does have the beehaw content before they were blocked, which they can still see and engage with. However those interactions are not sent to beehaw, which is where other instances are syncing with. Whether or not lemmyworld can indirectly participate in beehaw communities via other instances is unclear to me but I’m guessing the answer is no.
But I also believe lemmy.world can see old beehaw stuff from before the defed, so that could play a role.
This is correct. Lemmyworld still has a copy of all the beehaw stuff from before the block/defederation. However, I believe it’s the case that if lemmyworld users try to comment on it, those comments will not be sent to us here on kbin (since we get our copy of beehaw communities from beehaw).
notably: lemmyworld users can see beehaw user posts on kbin magazines.
You can. It took me a day to be subscribed to !technology@beehaw.org, don’t know if it’s how it’s supposed to be. EDIT: okay just checked again, what I said was bullshit. I’m actually still on “subscribe pending” but I can see their threads on my timeline.
That was before beehaw and lemmy.world were defederated.
What have I missed, why are they defederated? load / duplicate communities?
tldr version is beehaw doesn’t like Lemmy world
They said they just didn’t like the amount of moderation work lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works give them. Both these instances allow for joining without an application, and the amount of users that break their rules was just too much for them. They said they would like to revert this decision when they can handle the moderation again, but currently the Lemmy tools for moderation are not so great.
Reminds me of highschool there are cliques now huh :D
beehaw decided it. They couldn’t handle the moderation iirc
Wait, are both Lemmy world and Beehaw defederating? I thought it was just beehaw. If Lemmy world defederates, wouldn’t that mean it will no longer see other federated platforms content. That kind of defeats the purpose of the reddit migration in my opinion.
Beehaw is defederating from Lemmy.world, which is a two way severance.
Lemmy.world is not defederating from anyone else at the moment.
Beehaw is defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. That means Beehaw is not sending anything to those servers and refusing to receive anything from them.
beehaw is defederating from lemmyworld (ie blocking you). afaik lemmyworld isn’t defederating from beehaw.
Yeah I don’t understand how it works, but this seems like a really silly time to start splitting off tbh. Which instance are y’all signed up to?
Beehaw’s purpose is to have a place to have certain discussions in an environment that is conducive to those discussions. To build that environment, they have a user application process for new users. That was working well for them. However, lemmy.world allows anyone to sign up without screening. The result was that people were able to bypass Beehaw’s screening process to damage their environment.
To put into perspective, imagine you’re trying to run a support group for civilian refugees of Ukraine. You create an application process to screen out anyone that would like to sabotage that environment. However, the room also has a window to an adjacent room, and that adjacent room is open to the public. Russian military then use access to that room to taunt the people attending the support group with pictures of dead Ukrainians, not only effectively ruining the purpose of the group, but making the group members’ lives worse.
What Beehaw did was concrete up the window until they can figure out how to better protect their group members from people that want to damage their environment.
It seems unrealistic that a team of 4 people are going to be able to screen the potential flood of new users.
Entirely. I have no idea what the solution is. I think what Beehaw is doing is trying to prevent further damage while they come up with solutions that will work when federated with the rest of the instances.
exactly this
which is why I can’t understand why people are so angry and almost offended about this
Like this isn’t slandering all of Lemmy.world
But that’s the whole point of federation. Why don’t they just defederate from the entire network and just have a private instance?
Because they don’t want to; again, this is temporary while they get their bearings and figure out a better way to screen and moderate bad actors (and hoping that Lemmy.world does the same)
yeh, its unfortunate the moderation logs are public and so you can see that beehaw only banned like 2 people that i can see from .world
I have 3 accounts. Main is on lemmy.dbzer0.com, alts are on lemmy.fmhy.com and reddthat.com. So far, only the extremist lemmygrad.ml is defederated by the instances I use (the major lemmy instances has defederatedlemmygrad.ml). No major instances has defederated any of the instances I use. I can interact eith beehaw.com just fine. However, subscribing to beehaw and lemmy.ml communities show “subscription pending” although they haven’t defederated my instance.
yup I was wrong, I’m still on “subscribe pending” but I do see their threads on my timeline now
y’all were blocked yesterday so no.
not right now, though Beehaw said that they were open to refederating when better mod tools for Lemmy show up
