Toyota do have a decade or so unbroken history of promising anything that will slow BEV adoption and then delivering a turd sandwich. Here’s hoping it’s different this time.
I really would love it to be true. My parents are diehard Toyota people. They’d love to get an EV as their next car, but due to boomer brand loyalty, they next car must be a Toyota, and we all know how much the busy forks sucks, so here’s hoping they develop a usable EV next.
While it’s true that Toyota is pretty far behind other car manufacturers in pure battery EVs, they still have the best hybrid drivetrain around by miles and they have great plug-in hybrids. I just got a RAV4 Prime and I love it. It has around 40-50 miles of electric only range and then switches to hybrid mode if you drain the battery before recharging where it gets 60 MPG and can go over 500 miles on a tank. Honestly my commute is way less than 50 miles so I drive electric around 90% of the time. The only time I kick in the gas engine is for longer trips and especially on road trips it’s nice not to have to worry about finding charging stations and waiting an hour or two for a charge.
Ooh yeah; the rav prime is a wonderful car. I inquired about getting one back in 2021 and was told there was a two year wait. :/ ended up dipping my toes into the BEV world by leasing a VW ID.4, hated it, ended up selling it, and then begrudgingly bought a Model 3. Absolutely love my car (21k miles in a year with zero issues), but man I really had to hold my nose to pull the trigger on that purchase. I live in a big truck area and man I get a lot of coal rolling, revving, and middle fingers for my car haha
I wouldn’t even call that “boomer brand loyalty” I’m 24, almost 25 and I will probably not buy anything that isn’t a Toyota/Lexus for the rest of my life.
Toyota/Lexus are hands down the least maintenance heavy vehicles on the road. They know how to make an absolutely bulletproof reliable modern engine.
I’m a Service Writer for a mom and pop auto shop, and the most major thing I’ve had to write for a Toyota is… A Water Pump, Fuel Pump and a full Tuneup with 4 plugs and 4 coils. Which is… Basically peanuts compared to what I have to write for Dodges, Nissans, and Chevys. (Oil Filter Housings for Dodge, Whole Transmissions for Nissan, and a bunch of random shiz for Chevy)
Bro they recalled the fucking frames on Toyota Tacomas at one point lmao. I guess the motors were pretty reliable on my t100s but idk really nothing special compared to any other motor that’s getting regular maintenance.
Ehh, I used to share this take but I think it’s a bit over the top now. There are at least certain vehicle models from other brands that I feel are in the sphere with Toyota, notably the Ford F-150. Used, it tends to be similar or cheaper than the Tundra in price and mostly better features and performance and it gets better fuel economy than the vaunted Tacoma, let alone the Tundra, while being significantly bigger/roomier and I dare say, not much less reliable.
The F150 of today has many different major issues that can happen to it. Tacomas and Tundras are bulletproof I’ve never seen a Taco or Tundra in the shop for anything besides maintenance items.
I’ve told many an F150 owner that their truck is basically totalled. I told a guy yesterday that he probably needs to go trade his 2017 F150 in today because the Valve Body in the transmission is about to die.
It’s not 1.5k lol. You severely underestimate the cost of a Transmission replacement. That Transmission job is about 5k to 8k depending on if you want to go Reman or New.
@Skiptrace@kiddblur That’s how I feel about Honda. My 10-year old Accord is getting close to 120K miles and runs like new. I put 120K trouble-free miles on my previous Si. My wife is averaging over 40 mpg lifetime in her 2021 CR-V Hybrid, and before that put 280K miles on a 2007 CR-V - that has now been turned over to my son. The last one has cost a bit to keep on the road because after 16 years, some mechanical bits wear out. So be it. That’s just life.
Yeah in the ICE era they have made extremely reliable cars. However it remains to be seen who the reliability king is when it comes to EVs. Toyota’s first attempt has had some pretty major issues (such as the wheels falling off). EVs in general need way less maintenance so it stands to reason some other brand who embraced EVs sooner can become the new reliability king
The reality is that outside the engine and battery, most of the car is still the same in a BEV. BEVs even have gearboxes. I suspect that car manufacturers who are good at long-term mechanical reliability will continue to be good at it and those who are bad at it will continue to be bad at it regardless of the powerplant.
Hey I mean credit where credit’s due. If they can somehow cram a 200kWh battery with megawatt charging to get 700 miles and 10 minute charges into a Toyota priced car, so be it. Can’t imagine that’d be possible since that would be like 20-30k in battery cost alone, and there aren’t any chargers who can deliver that kind of power right now anyway.
At 350kW peak, I wonder what the miles per kwh would need to be to charge 700 miles of range in 10 minutes. That’s 58.3kWh delivered. So uhhhh they’d need to get 12 miles per kwh which would be uhhhh nuts
10 minutes at 350kw (assuming you hold peak the whole time) would provide
If we correct for toyota falseadvertising range estimates (-10%), assume they mean 90km/h at similar consumption as a model 3 in ideal coditios (around 120Wh/km), and take “a charge” as 10-80% then it needs 90kWh or about half a megawatt.
So still not within current chargers, but well within what a megawatt charger would provide (and there are four standards basically ready to roll out).
I’d love it to be true, but I will believe it when it hits the market
Toyota do have a decade or so unbroken history of promising anything that will slow BEV adoption and then delivering a turd sandwich. Here’s hoping it’s different this time.
I really would love it to be true. My parents are diehard Toyota people. They’d love to get an EV as their next car, but due to boomer brand loyalty, they next car must be a Toyota, and we all know how much the busy forks sucks, so here’s hoping they develop a usable EV next.
While it’s true that Toyota is pretty far behind other car manufacturers in pure battery EVs, they still have the best hybrid drivetrain around by miles and they have great plug-in hybrids. I just got a RAV4 Prime and I love it. It has around 40-50 miles of electric only range and then switches to hybrid mode if you drain the battery before recharging where it gets 60 MPG and can go over 500 miles on a tank. Honestly my commute is way less than 50 miles so I drive electric around 90% of the time. The only time I kick in the gas engine is for longer trips and especially on road trips it’s nice not to have to worry about finding charging stations and waiting an hour or two for a charge.
Ooh yeah; the rav prime is a wonderful car. I inquired about getting one back in 2021 and was told there was a two year wait. :/ ended up dipping my toes into the BEV world by leasing a VW ID.4, hated it, ended up selling it, and then begrudgingly bought a Model 3. Absolutely love my car (21k miles in a year with zero issues), but man I really had to hold my nose to pull the trigger on that purchase. I live in a big truck area and man I get a lot of coal rolling, revving, and middle fingers for my car haha
I wouldn’t even call that “boomer brand loyalty” I’m 24, almost 25 and I will probably not buy anything that isn’t a Toyota/Lexus for the rest of my life.
Toyota/Lexus are hands down the least maintenance heavy vehicles on the road. They know how to make an absolutely bulletproof reliable modern engine.
I’m a Service Writer for a mom and pop auto shop, and the most major thing I’ve had to write for a Toyota is… A Water Pump, Fuel Pump and a full Tuneup with 4 plugs and 4 coils. Which is… Basically peanuts compared to what I have to write for Dodges, Nissans, and Chevys. (Oil Filter Housings for Dodge, Whole Transmissions for Nissan, and a bunch of random shiz for Chevy)
Bro they recalled the fucking frames on Toyota Tacomas at one point lmao. I guess the motors were pretty reliable on my t100s but idk really nothing special compared to any other motor that’s getting regular maintenance.
There’s lot of motors that just fail regardless of maintenance.
Ehh, I used to share this take but I think it’s a bit over the top now. There are at least certain vehicle models from other brands that I feel are in the sphere with Toyota, notably the Ford F-150. Used, it tends to be similar or cheaper than the Tundra in price and mostly better features and performance and it gets better fuel economy than the vaunted Tacoma, let alone the Tundra, while being significantly bigger/roomier and I dare say, not much less reliable.
The F150 of today has many different major issues that can happen to it. Tacomas and Tundras are bulletproof I’ve never seen a Taco or Tundra in the shop for anything besides maintenance items.
I’ve told many an F150 owner that their truck is basically totalled. I told a guy yesterday that he probably needs to go trade his 2017 F150 in today because the Valve Body in the transmission is about to die.
Ehh, and down the road they go racking up the miles same as the Toyotas. Mine’s at 150k, a 3.5 ecoboost.
And let me get this straight, someone needs to trade in their 2017 truck because of a potentially $1.5k, maybe a fair amount less, repair?
It’s not 1.5k lol. You severely underestimate the cost of a Transmission replacement. That Transmission job is about 5k to 8k depending on if you want to go Reman or New.
Valve body ≠ Transmission…
@Skiptrace @kiddblur That’s how I feel about Honda. My 10-year old Accord is getting close to 120K miles and runs like new. I put 120K trouble-free miles on my previous Si. My wife is averaging over 40 mpg lifetime in her 2021 CR-V Hybrid, and before that put 280K miles on a 2007 CR-V - that has now been turned over to my son. The last one has cost a bit to keep on the road because after 16 years, some mechanical bits wear out. So be it. That’s just life.
Yeah in the ICE era they have made extremely reliable cars. However it remains to be seen who the reliability king is when it comes to EVs. Toyota’s first attempt has had some pretty major issues (such as the wheels falling off). EVs in general need way less maintenance so it stands to reason some other brand who embraced EVs sooner can become the new reliability king
I mean Tesla definitely is not.
The reality is that outside the engine and battery, most of the car is still the same in a BEV. BEVs even have gearboxes. I suspect that car manufacturers who are good at long-term mechanical reliability will continue to be good at it and those who are bad at it will continue to be bad at it regardless of the powerplant.
The Prius Prime is a pretty nice compromise between wanting a Toyota and having an EV for most daily driving.
Probably 6 batteries that require 12 chargers
Hey I mean credit where credit’s due. If they can somehow cram a 200kWh battery with megawatt charging to get 700 miles and 10 minute charges into a Toyota priced car, so be it. Can’t imagine that’d be possible since that would be like 20-30k in battery cost alone, and there aren’t any chargers who can deliver that kind of power right now anyway.
At 350kW peak, I wonder what the miles per kwh would need to be to charge 700 miles of range in 10 minutes. That’s 58.3kWh delivered. So uhhhh they’d need to get 12 miles per kwh which would be uhhhh nuts
10 minutes at 350kw (assuming you hold peak the whole time) would provide
If we correct for toyota falseadvertising range estimates (-10%), assume they mean 90km/h at similar consumption as a model 3 in ideal coditios (around 120Wh/km), and take “a charge” as 10-80% then it needs 90kWh or about half a megawatt.
So still not within current chargers, but well within what a megawatt charger would provide (and there are four standards basically ready to roll out).