FWIW I will never get the hypocrisy over race-based groups being fine for anyone but white people in the west lol.
It’s because there can often be non-discriminatory reasons why you’d want to create an exclusionary group for minority groups. A group for First Nations or American Indians that focused on working on equality, or preserving culture. Groups that focus on racial justice or equality might not include the dominant race.
It doesn’t even need to be minority by numbers, but by power. Curves is a gym where (some) ban men from joining. This is to provide a space where women feel safe to work out. Women are not a perceived numerical minority (at least in the US) but a minority in social and legal power.
If there was a white-only group that had a similar issue it focused on, I doubt people would be that upset. But white people (at least in Canada and the US) hold the most power and are a majority in many ways. So most of the above reasons don’t exist for them. So there are fewer white-only groups and when there are ones you hear about, it’s often because they are being exclusionary in order to discriminate.
I would also like to note from a US-law perspective, a lot of the above exclusionary groups don’t actually prevent white people or men from joining. Some do with legal exceptions but it’s rare.
Ironically there are what the poster above would consider “white” cultural organizations, organized around cultural lines. There’s a Ukrainian Cultural Centre, a German Cultural Centre and an Italian cultural centre nearby. The concept of a “white” cultural centre the above poster suggests is something different though, and I don’t really know how they would define it. I don’t think they are complaining about the lack of an organization to put on Robbie Burns night festivities. Those exist.
The absence of a “white” cultural centre is a false dichotomy IMNSHO, based on the idea that there is some sort of pan-cultural white-only culture. In a Canadian context, I have trouble coming up with a cultural definition that would simultaneously encompass all the acceptable “white” cultures while also excluding non-whites. Everything truly Canadian isn’t really whites-only, Canadian history encompasses multiple skin colours right from the beginning. I guess the English ex-pat clubs and the Robbie Burns Scottish clubs would come closest to that from a Canadian perspective, but those aren’t strictly from Canada, and they do in fact exist. And no one complains.
Indeed, even if you were to consider the Quebecois as a distinct subculture, a non-white Francophone is more a member of that culture than a white Anglophone.
Not a sociologist or an anthropologist, but a culture is composed of various cultural trappings, which include customs around food, dress, and language. There’s not really a lot of room for a meaningfully defined Canadian culture that somehow excludes people with the wrong shade of skin colour. Butter tarts, Nanaimo bars, the Canadian “Sorry”, much of what could be considered Canadian cultural trappings aren’t that race based. Except maybe for Residential schools, but some things are better left in the past.
I don’t know. You’re already getting pretty far into the concept of a subculture. Not an Anthropologist (and it’s been a long time since I took Anthropology in University), nor a Sociologist, but as I recall a culture is already sort of a fuzzy concept. It comprises components such as beliefs, languages, behaviours, etc.
You are already starting to make some fine distinctions in order to define an American culture distinct from a broader English-speaking culture, I think. Obviously, there are difference between Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and the USA, but you are already dealing with a largely common language. Although American’s might not queue as well, or use the Canadian Sorry, there are some broad similarities that I wouldn’t be surprised if some Anthropologists and Sociologists don’t consider it a meaningful division between “cultures”. At this level, there are plenty of non-white (for some definitions of white) that are a part of this culture. Arguably, predominantly non-white countries are equally a part of this larger global Anglosphere culture. Jamaica, Barbados, etc. Never mind the non-white people in the above mentioned countries. To get to a hypothetical “white” American culture, you are drilling down into some pretty specific territory.
I guess by definition, you could argue that there are “white” American subcultures. The KKK and alt-right would be two of them.
We’re getting pretty far down the rabbit hole though. I don’t really see a lot of room for a “whites only” North American cultural group that isn’t pretty much just the KKK/alt-right/neo-Nazis/whatever. What would be the cultural trappings of this subculture?
It’s because there can often be non-discriminatory reasons why you’d want to create an exclusionary group for minority groups. A group for First Nations or American Indians that focused on working on equality, or preserving culture. Groups that focus on racial justice or equality might not include the dominant race.
It doesn’t even need to be minority by numbers, but by power. Curves is a gym where (some) ban men from joining. This is to provide a space where women feel safe to work out. Women are not a perceived numerical minority (at least in the US) but a minority in social and legal power.
If there was a white-only group that had a similar issue it focused on, I doubt people would be that upset. But white people (at least in Canada and the US) hold the most power and are a majority in many ways. So most of the above reasons don’t exist for them. So there are fewer white-only groups and when there are ones you hear about, it’s often because they are being exclusionary in order to discriminate.
I would also like to note from a US-law perspective, a lot of the above exclusionary groups don’t actually prevent white people or men from joining. Some do with legal exceptions but it’s rare.
Ironically there are what the poster above would consider “white” cultural organizations, organized around cultural lines. There’s a Ukrainian Cultural Centre, a German Cultural Centre and an Italian cultural centre nearby. The concept of a “white” cultural centre the above poster suggests is something different though, and I don’t really know how they would define it. I don’t think they are complaining about the lack of an organization to put on Robbie Burns night festivities. Those exist.
The absence of a “white” cultural centre is a false dichotomy IMNSHO, based on the idea that there is some sort of pan-cultural white-only culture. In a Canadian context, I have trouble coming up with a cultural definition that would simultaneously encompass all the acceptable “white” cultures while also excluding non-whites. Everything truly Canadian isn’t really whites-only, Canadian history encompasses multiple skin colours right from the beginning. I guess the English ex-pat clubs and the Robbie Burns Scottish clubs would come closest to that from a Canadian perspective, but those aren’t strictly from Canada, and they do in fact exist. And no one complains.
Even the early English and French settlers, while predominately white, didn’t share much in the way of language or culture.
Indeed, even if you were to consider the Quebecois as a distinct subculture, a non-white Francophone is more a member of that culture than a white Anglophone.
Not a sociologist or an anthropologist, but a culture is composed of various cultural trappings, which include customs around food, dress, and language. There’s not really a lot of room for a meaningfully defined Canadian culture that somehow excludes people with the wrong shade of skin colour. Butter tarts, Nanaimo bars, the Canadian “Sorry”, much of what could be considered Canadian cultural trappings aren’t that race based. Except maybe for Residential schools, but some things are better left in the past.
White American could be a thing but you just can’t trust white americans not to turn it into KKK or/and Nazi vibes org.
One day we will get there.
I don’t know. You’re already getting pretty far into the concept of a subculture. Not an Anthropologist (and it’s been a long time since I took Anthropology in University), nor a Sociologist, but as I recall a culture is already sort of a fuzzy concept. It comprises components such as beliefs, languages, behaviours, etc.
You are already starting to make some fine distinctions in order to define an American culture distinct from a broader English-speaking culture, I think. Obviously, there are difference between Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK and the USA, but you are already dealing with a largely common language. Although American’s might not queue as well, or use the Canadian Sorry, there are some broad similarities that I wouldn’t be surprised if some Anthropologists and Sociologists don’t consider it a meaningful division between “cultures”. At this level, there are plenty of non-white (for some definitions of white) that are a part of this culture. Arguably, predominantly non-white countries are equally a part of this larger global Anglosphere culture. Jamaica, Barbados, etc. Never mind the non-white people in the above mentioned countries. To get to a hypothetical “white” American culture, you are drilling down into some pretty specific territory.
I guess by definition, you could argue that there are “white” American subcultures. The KKK and alt-right would be two of them.
We’re getting pretty far down the rabbit hole though. I don’t really see a lot of room for a “whites only” North American cultural group that isn’t pretty much just the KKK/alt-right/neo-Nazis/whatever. What would be the cultural trappings of this subculture?
I’ve now given this concept far too much thought.