Donald Trump has made his direction for federal taxes clear. Lower. But so has President Biden, who wants to wallop Americans with a $5 trillion tax increase.
Taxing unrealized gains would be unconstitutional.
We already tax the rich. They already pay more than their fair share. If you have proof otherwise, I’d like to see it.
The last tax cut actually increased revenue.
“Elon Musk, one of the world’s richest men, paid a “true tax rate” of about 3 percent between 2014 and 2018. Aber Christine, a flour vendor in Uganda, makes $80 a month and pays a tax rate of 40 percent.”
“Worldwide, only four cents in every tax dollar now comes from taxes on wealth. Half of the world’s billionaires live in countries with no inheritance tax for direct descendants. They will pass on a $5 trillion tax-free treasure chest to their heirs, more than the GDP of Africa, which will drive a future generation of aristocratic elites. Rich people’s income is mostly unearned, derived from returns on their assets, yet it is taxed on average at 18 percent, just over half as much as the average top tax rate on wages and salaries.”
“During the pandemic and cost-of-living crisis years since 2020, $26 trillion (63 percent) of all new wealth was captured by the richest 1 percent, while $16 trillion (37 percent) went to the rest of the world put together. A billionaire gained roughly $1.7 million for every $1 of new global wealth earned by a person in the bottom 90 percent.”
“According to new analysis by the Fight Inequality Alliance, Institute for Policy Studies, Oxfam and the Patriotic Millionaires, an annual wealth tax of up to 5 percent on the world’s multi-millionaires and billionaires could raise $1.7 trillion a year, enough to lift 2 billion people out of poverty, fully fund the shortfalls on existing humanitarian appeals, deliver a 10-year plan to end hunger, support poorer countries being ravaged by climate impacts, and deliver universal healthcare and social protection for everyone living in low- and lower middle-income countries.”
Elon Musk, one of the world’s richest men, paid a “true tax rate” of about 3 percent between 2014 and 2018. Aber Christine, a flour vendor in Uganda, makes $80 a month and pays a tax rate of 40 percent.”
This is false. It’s easy to prove it false. It’s well documented.
Between 2014 and 2018, Musk paid $455 million in taxes on $1.52 billion of income,
Here’s another story about the 11-billion tax claim. What your story leaves out is: “The emphasis on Musk’s income comes amid speculation of his past tax filings. In June, a ProPublica investigation found that while Musk’s wealth had grown by nearly $14 billion from 2014 to 2018, he paid $68,000 in federal income tax in 2015, $65,000 in 2017 and none in 2018. Between 2014 and 2018, the investigation found, he had a true tax rate of 3.27%.”
Here’s the ProPublica investigation mentioned, which is based on IRS documents. “We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period…According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.”
Ignore the 11 billion part. That’s for a different time period. Your quote was from 2014-2018.
You don’t pay taxes on wealth. So your citation doesn’t understand tax law. Wealth can’t be taxed by the federal government because it’s unconstitutional. Basically they are idiots.
We pay taxes on income and the rate changes on the type of income. Wealth isn’t income.
The attitude of hiding behind loopholes and technicalities is how the US has ended up with in the state shown by this chart and tables - with 2/3rds of wealth owned by the top 10%, and only 3% of wealth held by the bottom 50%. I’ll continue to listen to your arguments, but as fair warning you are unlikely to convince me that the bottom 170ish million US citizens should only have access to 3% of the wealth (2023 data btw).
In my defense, that’s precisely why I opened with the idea that we should tax the obscenely rich. As in, change the tax code. I haven’t alleged that Elon et al are criminally evading taxes (although I’ve heard rumblings of it happening in some cases), but rather I say the code needs to be revisited with levelling inequality in mind. I’ve even heard people like Mark Cuban explicitly say they believe their economic peer group should be taxed heavily. "Cuban urges people to get so “obnoxiously rich that when that tax bill comes, your first thought will be to choke on how big a check you have to write. Your 2nd thought will be ‘what a great problem to have,’ and your 3rd should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you.”
Since capital gains are taxed lower. Many people have converted their pay to stock.
A fine example of using technicalities/loopholes/whatever you want to label it as a way to reduce taxes paid.
A fine example of using technicalities/loopholes/whatever you want to label it as a way to reduce taxes paid.
It’s neither. It’s using the tax code to their advantage. Just as we do every year. Loophole makes it sound like it wasn’t designed that way.
I am 100% against taxing wealth but I am onboard for forcing people to covert wealth to cash to be taxed. The loans are something I despise. That really is a pet peeve of mine.
I also don’t mind PUBLiC companies having more regulations such as total comp can’t exceed x of the lowest paid employee.
Part of the wealth gap is caused by the stock market. If they want the benefit of the stock market. They should have more regulations.
The problem though is congress is tied to the hip to these people and that is why things done change
Who cares? You want to tell people online you are rich by fartington’s definition? I don’t care how wealthy you are, it does not matter. All I said was you are not, and will never be, in the ultra rich club you love to defend.
It matters because you use the term. As such it’s only fair to define the word.
You claim I’m not in a club but won’t define the criteria.
It’s just trolling to troll. I’m not a billionaire and wouldn’t want to be. I have enough wealth to retire now and spend over a million a year and never run out. Well unless Biden gets a second term then we are all screwed.
It does not. It show you can’t act in good faith and are just rolling. I’d be impacted by the tax increase. So yes, I care about my tax rates.
You just babble and try to look silly. We are not the same
We already tax the rich. They already pay more than their fair share. If you have proof otherwise, I’d like to see it. The last tax cut actually increased revenue.
Here’s an Oxfam report on wealth inequality. Some excerpts:
Let’s focus on one as that’s easier.
This is false. It’s easy to prove it false. It’s well documented.
Between 2014 and 2018, Musk paid $455 million in taxes on $1.52 billion of income,
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/20/elon-musk-says-he-will-pay-over-11-billion-in-taxes-this-year.html
So how did they come up with 3?
Technically most of that wasn’t “income”. It’s capital gains. His salary is normally a dollar.
Here’s another story about the 11-billion tax claim. What your story leaves out is: “The emphasis on Musk’s income comes amid speculation of his past tax filings. In June, a ProPublica investigation found that while Musk’s wealth had grown by nearly $14 billion from 2014 to 2018, he paid $68,000 in federal income tax in 2015, $65,000 in 2017 and none in 2018. Between 2014 and 2018, the investigation found, he had a true tax rate of 3.27%.”
Here’s the ProPublica investigation mentioned, which is based on IRS documents. “We compared how much in taxes the 25 richest Americans paid each year to how much Forbes estimated their wealth grew in that same time period…According to Forbes, those 25 people saw their worth rise a collective $401 billion from 2014 to 2018. They paid a total of $13.6 billion in federal income taxes in those five years, the IRS data shows. That’s a staggering sum, but it amounts to a true tax rate of only 3.4%.”
Ignore the 11 billion part. That’s for a different time period. Your quote was from 2014-2018.
You don’t pay taxes on wealth. So your citation doesn’t understand tax law. Wealth can’t be taxed by the federal government because it’s unconstitutional. Basically they are idiots.
We pay taxes on income and the rate changes on the type of income. Wealth isn’t income.
You linked the 11-billion story though?
The attitude of hiding behind loopholes and technicalities is how the US has ended up with in the state shown by this chart and tables - with 2/3rds of wealth owned by the top 10%, and only 3% of wealth held by the bottom 50%. I’ll continue to listen to your arguments, but as fair warning you are unlikely to convince me that the bottom 170ish million US citizens should only have access to 3% of the wealth (2023 data btw).
As it had the 2014-2018 numbers.
It’s neither. It’s how our tax code is written. Most of their wealth I would assume is stock. It isn’t cash.
Almost all of elons wealth is stock.
I’d be fine saying stock sales are ordinary income including SS and Medicare. That would end some of this.
I’d be fine counting personal loans as income and rebate if needed when paid off.
Since capital gains are taxed lower. Many people have converted their pay to stock.
In my defense, that’s precisely why I opened with the idea that we should tax the obscenely rich. As in, change the tax code. I haven’t alleged that Elon et al are criminally evading taxes (although I’ve heard rumblings of it happening in some cases), but rather I say the code needs to be revisited with levelling inequality in mind. I’ve even heard people like Mark Cuban explicitly say they believe their economic peer group should be taxed heavily. "Cuban urges people to get so “obnoxiously rich that when that tax bill comes, your first thought will be to choke on how big a check you have to write. Your 2nd thought will be ‘what a great problem to have,’ and your 3rd should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you.”
A fine example of using technicalities/loopholes/whatever you want to label it as a way to reduce taxes paid.
It’s neither. It’s using the tax code to their advantage. Just as we do every year. Loophole makes it sound like it wasn’t designed that way.
I am 100% against taxing wealth but I am onboard for forcing people to covert wealth to cash to be taxed. The loans are something I despise. That really is a pet peeve of mine.
I also don’t mind PUBLiC companies having more regulations such as total comp can’t exceed x of the lowest paid employee.
Part of the wealth gap is caused by the stock market. If they want the benefit of the stock market. They should have more regulations.
The problem though is congress is tied to the hip to these people and that is why things done change
Just a heads up, you’ll never be rich and part of their club. But please, for entertainment, keep defending them.
I am fairly wealthy. I earn in the top in the top 5%. I’m in the top 1% for wealth While I’m not rich in your eyes, i am in the eyes of most people.
I don’t doubt you have wealth and live comfortably. I’m just saying you will never be RICH rich so why defend them?
How do you define rich?
Who cares? You want to tell people online you are rich by fartington’s definition? I don’t care how wealthy you are, it does not matter. All I said was you are not, and will never be, in the ultra rich club you love to defend.
It matters because you use the term. As such it’s only fair to define the word. You claim I’m not in a club but won’t define the criteria. It’s just trolling to troll. I’m not a billionaire and wouldn’t want to be. I have enough wealth to retire now and spend over a million a year and never run out. Well unless Biden gets a second term then we are all screwed.
I defend what’s fair.
This reply shows I was correct.
It does not. It show you can’t act in good faith and are just rolling. I’d be impacted by the tax increase. So yes, I care about my tax rates. You just babble and try to look silly. We are not the same
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