• @Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    101 month ago

    I will make it simple for you.

    Elon typically earns 1 dollar per year.

    How much should he pay in taxes on that 1 dollar?

    And I’ll add back in the context that you’re desperate to jettison.

    Let’s look at a situation that resembles the real world:

    Elon Musk earns about $1.5 billion dollars/year with an estimated net worth of about $150 billion.

    The median American income is about $70k/year with an estimated net worth of $193k

    Musk should be taxed at 90% like we did for top earners during the biggest economic expansion in our nation’s history.

    Your point is invalid. High-income earners already pay more in taxes, not only as a percentage but also as a total of their income.

    And that wasn’t my point; you’re trying to change the argument because you know you’re wrong.

    You don’t see the irony in wanting others to pay more but not wanting to pay more yourself.

    I would love for you to point out where I said I wouldn’t be willing to pay more in taxes. This accusation is a confession, it seems.

    • Neuromancer
      link
      English
      -141 month ago

      Elon Musk earns about $1.5 billion dollars/year with an estimated net worth of about $150 billion.

      False. Elon does not earn $1.5 billion a year. That is not his income. His net worth has nothing to do with his income.

      Musk should be taxed at 90% like we did for top earners during the biggest economic expansion in our nation’s history.

      That is also false. Income was taxed at 90%, not wealth. We have never taxed wealth because it is unconstitutional. Also, the tax code was very different back then, and only 1 person ever paid that level of tax. People had many more deductions than they do now.

      And that wasn’t my point; you’re trying to change the argument because you know you’re wrong. No, I am right, as you demonstrated here that you don’t know the difference between income, wealth, and even how taxes have worked historically.

      I would love for you to point out where I said I wouldn’t be willing to pay more in taxes. This accusation is a confession, it seems.

      How much more do you think your tax bracket should pay to keep the current rates for all the other brackets?

      • @TheKMAP@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        101 month ago

        “buy borrow die” is totally income, dude. It’s just not taxed, and step-up basis makes it worse.

        The net worth is used to fund everyday expenses, it is effectively income.

        • Neuromancer
          link
          English
          -131 month ago

          “buy borrow die” is totally income, dude. It is not income under the law but I have no issues taxing it as income or preventing the practice.

          If Bernie wasn’t so dumb, that is where he would focus his angst. I suspect few people really understand that is how Elon supports himself through loans and not income.

          One day, those loans have to be called, but until then, there is no income.

          • @TheKMAP@lemmynsfw.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            51 month ago

            I wouldn’t be surprised if those loans are repaid without realizing the gain of the collateral. Step-up basis is a huge tax dodge, and tax dodge is theft from all the people who would benefit from the things those taxes could pay for.

            The way the rich use loans as income is unfair. Therefore the rich do not pay their fair share.

            • Neuromancer
              link
              English
              -101 month ago

              It would be interesting to see how many of the rich are using loans to bypass taxes.

              I have only heard of a few cases dealing with tech wealthy people who are paid mainly in stock.

              I do think it is an issue and something should be done about it.

              It is a fallout from being a public company and we can regulate that much easier.

              I think our whole tax system needs to be burned down and replaced.

              • @TheKMAP@lemmynsfw.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                61 month ago

                If you agree the system is broken I encourage you to reconsider your prior statements about the rich not paying their fair share.

                Rich people do a variety of shady stuff and keep it hidden (Panama papers), I wouldn’t trust your lack of data points to mean it isn’t a pervasive problem.

                • Neuromancer
                  link
                  English
                  -91 month ago

                  That’s moving the goalpost.

                  The pay their fair share of income tax.

                  The issue is there is a way to avoid income.

                  That’s the problem we need to solve. Technically they’re taking on debt to avoid taxes. Sounds reasonable but those are loans we couldn’t get. It’s just a tax avoidance system.

      • @Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        101 month ago

        I’m done pretending you’re a serious person arguing seriously.

        Anyone can say “nuh-uh.”

        I also never said wealth was taxed. I said his income should be taxed (in response to your question).

        You’re misrepresenting my argument at every step like you always do. Your sealion question at the end is irrelevant; you have no idea how much I earn, and I’m not here to impress Internet strangers like you seem to be. Bet you’re real close to that billion though if you keep grinding!

        Bet it burns you up that you can’t ban me from here.

        • Neuromancer
          link
          English
          -141 month ago

          I also never said wealth was taxed. I said his income should be taxed (in response to your question). then why did you bring up Elon’s wealth?

          You’re misrepresenting my argument at every step like you always do.

          Then, be more clear. Don’t blame me because you can’t articulate your thoughts well. You are talking about wealth but claim you are not talking about wealth. Elon does not earn $1.5 billion per year. That is factually inaccurate.

          Your sealion question at the end is irrelevant; you have no idea how much I earn, and I’m not here to impress Internet strangers like you seem to be. You said you would pay more but when asked, it’s now sealioning? Never asked how much you earned. I asked how much more your bracket should pay since you said you would pay more.

          Bet you’re real close to that billion though if you keep grinding! Not even close and not even a goal of mine.

          Bet it burns you up that you can’t ban me from here. It’s so weird you try to turn everything personal instead of having a discussion. Instead of trying to talk about me, why not engage in the discussion?

            • Neuromancer
              link
              English
              -101 month ago

              That isn’t true at all.

              So can you back up any of your claims like Elon makes 1.5 billion a year in income or are we just done for now?

              • @Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                8
                edit-2
                1 month ago

                If I did would it change your mind?

                If not, why should I bother? This isn’t germaine, it’s a distraction because you don’t want to argue the actual point.

                • Neuromancer
                  link
                  English
                  -101 month ago

                  Stop trying to turn this into a discussion about me. I am acting in good faith.

                  You can’t just make a claim and then refuse to back it while trying to have a real discussion.

                  You will see someone else brought up loans, and I agree that is an issue. That is why the ultra-wealthy can avoid taxes, and that is a problem we can solve without violating the Constitution.

                  • @Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    5
                    edit-2
                    1 month ago

                    Would it change your mind?

                    If not, it’s irrelevant. So why are you so hung up on that?

                    You’re playing games because you don’t want to discuss the actual issue.

                    Fair enough, I understand you’ll lose the debate.