When you argue for housing reform to legalize denser development in our cities, you quickly learn that some people hate density. Like, really hate density, with visceral disgust and contempt for any development pattern that involves buildings being tall or close together.
I mean, I live in a nice apartment and I still don’t enjoy density, living in the city with kids sucks in many ways. Im not sure I would enjoy suburbia that much more, especially if it means taking a hit on expenses. When I buy a house, I don’t want neighbours in spitting distance of me, which is why I will be looking something outside of the city, ideally without a neighbour within 500, if not 1000m of my house.
I have lived in a place like that since childhood. It is very lonely. Until I got my driver’s license I had ti be driven around by my parents constantly, which caused a lot of conflict between us because driving that much isn’t fun for anyone. My house has a walk score of 0 and I just don’t think that rural, car dependent living is good for children that must rely on their parents constantly for transportation. I am now going to university in a large city and can’t wait to live somewhere I don’t need to own a car.
I have the opposite view with kids.
I grew up in the middle of nowhere and had zero access to anything, I needed to be chauffeured everywhere, and had access to a limited amount of activities that would match my parents’ schedules and traffic patterns. It was miserable and I had no agency.
Around 14 years old we moved to a downtown, I could now see friends whenever I wanted, go anywhere the transit would take me, and do any activity I wanted.
I live downtown agencent now (mid rises everywhere, 4 stories). I’ve got access to 80% of the things my kid will ever need in an 8 minute walk, and the rest by transit. I don’t actually know how many parks are in my walk bubble, but it’s at least 20 8 subsidized and 7 unsubsidized daycares, nurse clinic, doctor clinic, library, schools, rec centers, every sport field, and a family center. And my midrise alone has 10 other kids in the age range of mine.
I could do without hauling the stroller up and down the stairs though.
Lol I wanted to reply the same thing. Rural as a kid sucked, you couldn’t do shit, couldn’t go out. There was nothing to do in my vicinity and my parents had to drive me everywhere except to my friend in the next village where I went by bike. Now as a young adult in a city it’s way better. Public transport takes me everywhere I want to go, I get back by myself after partying and just going outside my apartment and having a 5min walk to a grocery store is pretty cool.
I love how you both act like being in the middle of shit matters for a 12yo.
What a crock…lol
There is literally nothing I would have wanted more as a 12 year old than to be able to walk to meet my friends or play football in the park without having to be driven around…
I hear you, access is great, I take my kids to daycare via a 10 min walk and then take the trolley for 15 mins to work. I have a large store right next to my house. Theres 2 awesome parks within 2 stops. I would trade it all for a yard and a minivan if that wasn’t so expensive by comparison (probably close to double, at least, what i pay for rent and utilities atm).
As for the kids, I think they’d be off okay at baseline, since between the 3 of them theres only a 1.5 year gap. At the point when I will look for the place, I will also only work 8-10 days a week, so I can dedicate plenty of time for their needs.
My mom’s family lived in a small town (not her immediate family, her dad moved them around, he did construction) and she said she would never ever want to raise kids in a small town because “when there is nothing to do, they get in trouble” and indeed, her cousins and nieces and nephews did. She sent her niece Susan $500 at graduation for making it through without getting pregnant or arrested!
We did grow up in sort of a suburb but with a university, library, sports and dance places, buses to downtown, plenty of places to work and parks and stuff. I moved into the city proper, but not downtown. My kids thank me for not raising them on the outskirts. I do think more urban is better than suburbs and uptown like we are is ideal, a “development” from the 1940s a couple miles from downtown, not in the direction of the very rich people. There are both houses and apartments here and it’s fine. There were where I grew up too.
Oh man this is so me!
I grew up in the rural USA in a pretty area with lots of space. I enjoyed a lot about it, but I didn’t realise how suffocating it was until I spent a couple weeks living in a walkable city in Europe.
It was magical! The freedom I felt by being able to walk/cycle/take a bus somewhere without having to be driven! The feeling of being able to just go meet people!
Fast forward a decade or so and I moved to Europe (as an adult). Still magical! Imagine being able to walk to the bar! No looking for parking! No car payments!
I’m never going back…
That being said, I understand why many people are resistant to density. Cities that do density poorly (I.e. 99% of US cities, and many European ones) are miserable to be in. There is a reason that people visit Venice and not Houston…
I have 3 boys, they have a 1.5 year difference, so I think they won’t be lonely, getting involved is also less problematic since I will only need to work 8-10 days a month at that point. To be clear i am not thinking about middle of nowhere, but like a couple stops from the city.
Access is nice, 10 minutes to kindergarten on foot, 15 to work by trolley, store literally next door, two awesome parks two stops from us. But I would trade it all away for a yard and a minivan if that wasn’t substantially more expensive.
I have three siblings and if you think it’s impossible to feel lonely growing up because you have siblings I got news for you.
Siblings are not a replacement for friends, and they shouldn’t have to be.
As a kid who grew up in a place like that, it kinda sucks. Yea the forest is cool, could make lots of noise and had lots of space, but I had only 1 kid on my street to share that with. I was dependant on rides from my parents to be social/work until I got a bicycle and could bike 10km into town to socialize with friends. Rural living can be very isolating for kids and turn parents into taxis.
Valid point. That said I have 3 boys, oldest is four and followed by twins who are one and a half younger, think they wont be lonely, but socialising outside of that will of course be cumbersome. My job means around 20 days off a month, so chauffeuring is also less problematic.
We can’t all afford to be as antisocial as you as a species. We’d go extinct even faster if we did.
Edit: like seriously imagine if we all lived at a density of ONE family per square km… ~4 hab/km2… that’s insane. You have to be misanthropic as fuck to wish that future.
Its not misanthropic to want privacy and to be able to do whatever the fuck i want on my property without worrying about the neighbours. Sunbathe naked? Sure. Come home from a shift, wanna blast some music at 7:00 to unwind? Sure. All night party? No prob. Orgy by the pond? Why not.
On top of that, I don’t know many people below 50 who have a relationship with their neighbours that is more involved than exchanging pleasantries in the elevator. I don’t doubt that some do, but generally that seems the exception these days.