First of all, what the fuck kind of standard is that, “indefintely”? At least it doesnt actively lead to fascism. I’d cite the “fascism is capitalism in decline” thing, but since Lenin said that iirc, that’d be like citing the bible to prove the bible.
Second of all, socialists, communists, and anarchists were always on the forefront of fighting fascism. They were the major force in the Spanisch civil war until they lost because fascism is better at the military. They were the ones arguing the loudest against Nazis, which is why they were such a threat that the first concentration camp were made for them. In Cuba, they literally overthrew the fascist dictatorship that was there at the time. Even reformism won out in places like Chile until the USA (you know, that liberal democracy that’s all the rage now) decided they’d rather see a FASCIST DICTATOR in its place. And even though I don’t like the Soviet Union for a variety of reasons, especially once Stalin took over, they were the ones who bore the brunt of the war against the Nazis while the USA were initially only helping for profit. And yes, I am aware that the USSR also played a significant role in letting the Nazis grow to power. Like I said, Stalin (and the system he represented) bad.
To get back to the original topic, since we both evidently disenjoy fascism, we (as in, our respective ideological groups) should maybe join in a united front against it. Not as a centrist “reach across the aisle”, just to work together on this particular issue. And I’d love to do that. But Joe seems stuck in the proud 'murican tradition of panicking at the sight of red flags and siding with fascists.
First of all, what the fuck kind of standard is that, “indefintely”?
Is that not the standard you’re applying to liberal democracy?
They were the major force in the Spanisch civil war until they lost because fascism is better at the military.
That’s not even close to true. The fascists won the Spanish Civil War due to a mixture of outside help and the Soviets literally backstabbing the socialists and anarchists.
In Cuba, they literally overthrew the fascist dictatorship that was there at the time.
Oh, cool. What did they replace it with?
And even though I don’t like the Soviet Union for a variety of reasons, especially once Stalin took over, they were the ones who bore the brunt of the war against the Nazis while the USA were initially only helping for profit.
Jesus Christ.
And yes, I am aware that the USSR also played a significant role in letting the Nazis grow to power. Like I said, Stalin (and the system he represented) bad.
Okay, then you are also aware that the USSR was a fascist regime painted red which engaged in a great deal of ethnic cleansing and mass murder, as well as autocratic governance and the destruction of workers’ political, civil, and economic rights.
So you’ve still not offered a single ideology that has actually managed to hold off totalitarianism in a way liberal democracy has not.
To get back to the original topic, since we both evidently disenjoy fascism, we (as in, our respective ideological groups) should maybe join in a united front against it. Not as a centrist “reach across the aisle”, just to work together on this particular issue. And I’d love to do that. But Joe seems stuck in the proud 'murican tradition of panicking at the sight of red flags and siding with fascists.
Cool. The United Front here is really easy. Vote for the coalition candidate; you know, the one running with the party that has DemSocs and SocDems in it in addition to moderates and neolibs; against the literal fucking fascist.
The standard I’m applying to liberal democracy is the lowest one possible. “Does it actively cause fascism, or support it in its rise?” To which the answer sooner or later becomes “Abso-fucking-lutely.”
The Cuban fascist were replaced with a workers’ state that survived and to some degree prospered in spite of isolation by the USA and their lackeys. There sure are human rights issues, but besides at least some of them stemming from the definition of human rights as anything diverging from bourgeois parlamentary democracy, that’s not enough to completely discredit communism. There are plenty capitalist natuons with abysmal human rights records.
Yes. The USSR sucked ass. In my view, there’s a number of reasons they (and China) shouldn’t even be considered communist (workers had no real control, and they abandoned internationalism in favor of petty nationalism). But they generally seen as part of the communist lore, so whatever. That doesn’t make them fascists.
So you’ve still not offered a single ideology that has actually managed to hold off totalitarianism in a way liberal democracy has not.
Nice shifting of the goal posts there, buddy. We were talking about fascism, not totalitarianism. The latter is just a label you stick on countries you don’t like in order to equate them with fascism.
Vote for the coalition candidate.
What coalition? Many of the Dems (at least from what I notice outside the USA) view anything that’s actually more left than a better healthcare system as more evil than what the Republicans are doing. They happily play along when the Republicans bring up the red spectre (there’s a certain irony to that) of communism.
First of all, what the fuck kind of standard is that, “indefintely”? At least it doesnt actively lead to fascism. I’d cite the “fascism is capitalism in decline” thing, but since Lenin said that iirc, that’d be like citing the bible to prove the bible.
Second of all, socialists, communists, and anarchists were always on the forefront of fighting fascism. They were the major force in the Spanisch civil war until they lost because fascism is better at the military. They were the ones arguing the loudest against Nazis, which is why they were such a threat that the first concentration camp were made for them. In Cuba, they literally overthrew the fascist dictatorship that was there at the time. Even reformism won out in places like Chile until the USA (you know, that liberal democracy that’s all the rage now) decided they’d rather see a FASCIST DICTATOR in its place. And even though I don’t like the Soviet Union for a variety of reasons, especially once Stalin took over, they were the ones who bore the brunt of the war against the Nazis while the USA were initially only helping for profit. And yes, I am aware that the USSR also played a significant role in letting the Nazis grow to power. Like I said, Stalin (and the system he represented) bad.
To get back to the original topic, since we both evidently disenjoy fascism, we (as in, our respective ideological groups) should maybe join in a united front against it. Not as a centrist “reach across the aisle”, just to work together on this particular issue. And I’d love to do that. But Joe seems stuck in the proud 'murican tradition of panicking at the sight of red flags and siding with fascists.
Is that not the standard you’re applying to liberal democracy?
That’s not even close to true. The fascists won the Spanish Civil War due to a mixture of outside help and the Soviets literally backstabbing the socialists and anarchists.
Oh, cool. What did they replace it with?
Jesus Christ.
Okay, then you are also aware that the USSR was a fascist regime painted red which engaged in a great deal of ethnic cleansing and mass murder, as well as autocratic governance and the destruction of workers’ political, civil, and economic rights.
So you’ve still not offered a single ideology that has actually managed to hold off totalitarianism in a way liberal democracy has not.
Cool. The United Front here is really easy. Vote for the coalition candidate; you know, the one running with the party that has DemSocs and SocDems in it in addition to moderates and neolibs; against the literal fucking fascist.
The standard I’m applying to liberal democracy is the lowest one possible. “Does it actively cause fascism, or support it in its rise?” To which the answer sooner or later becomes “Abso-fucking-lutely.”
The Cuban fascist were replaced with a workers’ state that survived and to some degree prospered in spite of isolation by the USA and their lackeys. There sure are human rights issues, but besides at least some of them stemming from the definition of human rights as anything diverging from bourgeois parlamentary democracy, that’s not enough to completely discredit communism. There are plenty capitalist natuons with abysmal human rights records.
Yes. The USSR sucked ass. In my view, there’s a number of reasons they (and China) shouldn’t even be considered communist (workers had no real control, and they abandoned internationalism in favor of petty nationalism). But they generally seen as part of the communist lore, so whatever. That doesn’t make them fascists.
Nice shifting of the goal posts there, buddy. We were talking about fascism, not totalitarianism. The latter is just a label you stick on countries you don’t like in order to equate them with fascism.
What coalition? Many of the Dems (at least from what I notice outside the USA) view anything that’s actually more left than a better healthcare system as more evil than what the Republicans are doing. They happily play along when the Republicans bring up the red spectre (there’s a certain irony to that) of communism.