A Ukrainian Neo-Nazi soldier visited the Auschwitz death camp wearing a shirt quoting Hitler in order to mock the camp’s victims. This is the type of truly fascist scum that billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars are going to fund and arm.
A Ukrainian Neo-Nazi soldier visited the Auschwitz death camp wearing a shirt quoting Hitler in order to mock the camp’s victims. This is the type of truly fascist scum that billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars are going to fund and arm.
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were they also shooting in the right direction when they were attempting to ethnically cleanse ukraine of uh… ukrainians?
No. In fact I don’t have any respect nor any sympathy for them. That said, today I rather have then dying to push back the invasion than Ukrainian civilians forced to join the army.
In either case, it’s not like weapons are given to them to let them do what they would do if they were completely free (thankfully), so OP argument seems invalid to me. It’s a disgrace that the West is not only not defending Palestine, but aiding Israel, but this doesn’t make it automatically wrong to arm Ukrainians. It’s not like they are not sending weapons to Gaza because they finished to send them to Ukraine.
incidentally, since you know so much about this, if the nazis are such a small irrelevant minority in ukraine’s govt (and they’re definitely not in power), why is it so hard to get pictures of ukrainian soldiers without nazi tattoos and nazi patches?
oh, and why is the government full of people like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Melnyk_(diplomat)
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i like your coy avoidance. dude’s an open banderite. that’s a nazi. that’s what i mean when i say people like him.
so anyway, why did zelensky’s totally not a nazi government pick a blatant nazi to be one of their ambassadors? why was he not fired and buried in a pit when he displayed his naziness to the whole world? why was he just recalled and sent to another country to continue to be a nazi ambassador?
this doesnt sound like a country that’s on top of it’s supposedly tiny nazi minority. a country that lets them shell the donbass for years, seemingly unable or unwilling to stop them. a country that seems to always picks nazis (tattoos, patches) for its army PR pictures.
oh, and there’s this also to prove how tiny the nazi minority is in ukraine: 31% of them approve of bandera. 76% percent of those who live in western Ukraine have a positive opinion towards Bandera (https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7138).
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it’s only nazism if it comes from the nazi region of germany, otherwise it’s just sparkling genocidal fascism. got it.
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lol, peak liberal brain. These heavily-armed Nazi groups are incorporated into the army and people don’t vooooooooooot for them, surely they have no power.
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They basically already did in 2014 with US backing, see that one video where an Ukronazi is gloating about how even though all the Western media talked about was how Nazis were a minority in Euromaidan, without them it would’ve been ”like a gay parade” (his words).
Even if the Nazis are a relatively small portion of the population, they have lots of weapons and have been training (including indoctrinating children as reported by Western media) for years, it’s not exactly far fetched to say they can use the threat of violence get their way.
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You do realize the parties “elected” are the one pushing Banderism and approving the incorporation of neo-nazi militias into high ranking positions in the police abd military, the fuckin Azov militias are literally a special forces bridgade now, you think that happens without goverment sanction? A party doesn’t have to call itself the New Nazi Jew Killer party to be a nazi party, Zelensky’s party is a nazi party
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Perhaps they mean things like
This
or this
or this
or this
or this
or maybe this
That Nazi minority seems to end up in front of Western news cameras a lot. Weird since those new agencies have an incentive to downplay the presence of far right elements in the Ukrainian military. It’s almost like they’re so embedded in their forces that war corespondents can’t help but pick up a few dudes with SS tattoos
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Just wanna say I skimmed it and that essay sucks ass, Jacobin has about a 90 percent miss rate on foreign affairs
Interesting, why do you say that? I find it culturally distant, but I think very good points were made.
No mention of the discrimination and shelling of civilians in the east by Ukrainian government. No mention of NATO aggression since the 90s against Russia. Serious usage of the word “authoritarian” as if this is a genuine political description. Stating that the west did not want this war (?? Wtf). Dismissing off hand in the first part the very real critiqures of Ukraine and NATO as Russian propaganda. The whole thing stinks of radliberalism.
He tries to position zelensky as a poor guy just caught between evil Russians and evil Nazis. Total bullshit. The only grain of truth is that yes, Nazis have many weapons and manpower in Ukraine. So why did Zelensky elevate them during those grand tours all around the world begging for international Patreon subscribers? These Nazis need to be liquidated, not appeased, and if Ukraine and the west is not up to the task (and why would they be? These Nazis are the only committed fighters they can throw against Russians) then Russia is going to do it. I say that as someone who does not like Putin, but as someone who can see the way that war is going.
This guy, even if he is genuine in being a “socialist” whatever he thinks that means, does not have the correct context to understand even his own involvement in this war. He comes off as basically a liberal in all his justifications but then puts a little red fig leaf over these wrong justifications by claiming to be a “leftist”.
What’s funny is that he mentions a “Ukrainian resistance”. I’m sure this was written in the heady days of all those “Putler is finished!” and sanction flinging. Looking back from 2024, there is no resistance and never was. Ukrainians who could rightfully got the fuck out of the country, why would they stay to die for a government that never gave them shit?
And this part I have to laugh at, it shows how out of date even two years later this piece is.
It’s true that there would be a guerilla war if Russia occupied ethnically Ukrainian parts of Ukraine. Especially if these Nazi groups are allowed to exist. And as of July 2024, that’s not what they’re doing. Second, I just have to laugh at the part mentioning sanctions, it just brings back quaint memories. The fact is, the Russian economy has neutered the threat of sanctions and is orienting itself eastward to the detriment of Europe. No more cheap energy for German factories. But don’t worry, uncle Sam is there to help…
As for the idea of a Ukrainian resistance mentioned there. I live in a place that recieved quite a few Ukrainians and work with a handful. To paraphrase what they’ve all said to me: “the country was fucked before 2022, with all the corruption and attending ills that come with kowtoing to the neoliberal/western order. We’re not gonna die for that, and we’re never going back.” So between the attitudes of the diaspora, and the fact that the only way for the Ukrainian army to replenish it’s manpower is by snatching people with trucks, I have to just laugh at the idea of a Ukrainian resistance that isn’t led by neo Nazis.
Last, it’s odd that there’s an argument put forward that , because America losing in Vietnam was a good thing, that Russia should lose the Ukraine war to push back their world domination. As if the world hegemon in the 60s-70s is comparable to Russia’s regional role today. I mean if we’re being honest we can skip the mental gymnastics and say that Ukraine should lose the war, because then America will lose by proxy and that’s a good thing according to the author. They’re still the most important node in global capitalism today after all. The point he tries to make isn’t a flattering one for his own argument, and once again shows how he doesn’t understand historical context of these events. Instead he seems to have an essentially liberal lens of “small guy good, big guy bad”.
No wonder Jacobin published that article . It ticks off all their little boxes of being pathetically aesthetically radical without actually coming to a different conclusion than that reached by the US state department.
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That’s exactly what’s happening.
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It’s been confirmed (by Western news sources) that many of the weapons sent to Ukraine aren’t accounted for at all, so there’s no way to know where exactly they end up.
I also have to dispute your point that they’re not being sent directly to battalions, since the US recently lifted the ban on supplying the Azov Battalion.
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Do you even look back at what you write before you post it?
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ukrainian nazis were allowed to try to ethnically cleanse eastern ukraine. the state was unable or unwilling to rein them in. the same state passed laws attempting to marginalize the native language of millions of ukrainians.
ukrainian nazis were very much in a position to carry out an extermination before the war. i suppose it wasnt going well enough for you to consider it a proper extermination attempt or something.
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It really doesn’t. If I say ”I’m going to buy some groceries to make dinner”, there’s no implication that I’m going to start making dinner immediately.
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I know you’re a Bandera apologist, so making this comment is pretty pointless, but “what’s happening” referred to arms being sent to Ukraine, not the latter part of the sentence.
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Ukrainian Nazis seem more focused on ethnic Russians and Roma than Jews (at the moment) probably because they’re allied with the West and being too blatantly anti-Semitic could cost them NATO bucks. There’s been plenty of reporting on their attacks against Russians and Roma though.
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Couldn’t be more blatant NATO loser
Lol you literally can’t imagine a non-russian person disagreeing with you about supporting nazis, absolutely brainrotted
Slobber Ukrainski
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This place aint for you lemm.ee user.
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Nice emoji. Is there some hidden message or it’s literally just a waste of bytes like this comment?
I liked even the other one TBH. That said, I don’t feel you are contributing much to the discussion. It’s not mandatory to do so, despite how much I enjoy the fun emojis.
lmao you’re not discussing anything, you’re just engaging in delusional nazi apologetics and whining about emojis, you’re a joke you get that right?
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The point was that you were too dumb to have a conversation with, not that lemm.ee users can’t come here. There are many lemm.ee users that have intelligent insights and comments and you are not one of them.
Oh I see. Not sure there is much point in discussing that you don’t want to discuss…
You can’t logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into unfortunately.
Could you “logic” your way around this image please?
What’s the logic of attempting to ethically cleanse millions of Russian speaking Ukrainians while arming and incorporating dozens of neo-nazis militias into the state military while giving them special forces status and pay?
The Azov group has literally been reorganized into one of the major and most well equipped special forces brigades in the Ukrainian army, the same is true for all the premier units with open banderites in charge of the command structure
The only reason you’re feigning ignorance about this is because Ukrainian state and social media isn’t readily observable in the west, so you dipshits can pretend that neo-nazism isn’t the dominant force in Ukrainian cultural and poltical life
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It didn’t lose its identity dumbass, it has gain unprecedented power and legitimacy and is now the premier special forces division of the country
No they did not, stop making shit up, the command structure of the unit is now made up of Azov prisoners who were captured by the Russians early in the war and released in subsequent prisoner trade exchanges
lmao you do not speak Russian
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Many died and then more nazis joined, and the ones who were captured are now leading the unit
And they’re all commanded by ideological nazis and banderites leading cohorts of other convinced nazis or demoralized conscripts who don’t want to be there regardless
And then the years 2015, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23 came and went, the concept of time I know it’s wild, now Azov has thousands of fighters and premier government approved status and is simply one of dozens of openly neo-nazi units operating within the Ukrainian military
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Your entire argument is based on delusional magical thinking, it’s the equivalent of asserting the Wehrmacht of the Third Reich weren’t nazis because the SS was a separate institution and the majority of the German army conscripts weren’t SS or party members, it’s a derivative of the clean Wehrmacht myth except in this case applied to the Ukrainian army whose official policy is to actively celebrate nazis like Bandera and elevated neo-nazi militias in its own institution, also misses the point that these are considered elite bodies with strict recruitment policies, not football clubs any dipshit banderist can join, that’s what the other dozens of brigades and incorporated nazi units are for
Just take how delusional this sentence is, any institution that allows nazis to openly organize and preach is by definition a nazi organization, doesn’t matter if the leadership and the hardcore members are outnumbered by conscripts, conscripts who judging by internal Ukrainian polls are open and susceptible to Banderist nazi ideology, which is why the literal fuckin majority of western photography shows a cavalcade of soldiers proudly displaying nazi paraphernalia
Yeah the difference is now the nazis are given institutional approval and funding, lmao how the fuck are you missing that obvious development, if the federal government found some random neo-nazi militia and gave them federal approval, funding, and arms, that wouldn’t be a good you delusional nazi apologist
There wouldn’t be a reduction of their “identity” it’s would instead be elevated and given prestigious institutional status from which they can use to recruit and spread, which surprise is what has been happening, to the point we now got a nazi comfortable enough to go to Auschwitz and mock the victims of the Holocaust without any media backlash IN NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES, what do you think is going in Ukraine proper
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An Imgur link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same location on alternative frontends that protect your privacy.
What definition of imperialism are you using to make this analysis?
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This is an extremely broad definition that has no Marxist basis and would apply to basically any country that trades with another.
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There are tons of people discussing and analyzing this with you in this thread, the fact they’re pushing back against your narrative and not immediately validating your dumber talking points doesn’t mean they’re not “open to discussion”, they’re just not open to entertaining you.
This site doesn’t have downvotes so you’re just talking out your ass here.
We have a somewhat consistent party line here, that’s not groupthink that’s just being clear what our ideological stance is on thing. You can come here and disagree with it but don’t expect a warm welcome, same as I wouldn’t expect a warm welcome if I showed up in a Liberal forum and started dropping hardcore ML talking points.
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You’re not being downvoted, we don’t have downvotes.
Some people are telling you to fuck off yeah, that’s largely cuz you started making Bandera apologia in the thread, which I think is a pretty good “fuck off” line. Besides that you’ve been pretty smug and obtuse this whole thread so I don’t blame people for not wanting to be 100% civil towards you.
Regardless you have been getting people trying to honestly engage you (perhaps not in a totally polite way, nevertheless) so going on some mopey diatribe about what meanie weenies we’ve been to you just comes off as you being whiny.
The locus of nazism is ethnonationalism, racial purity, and eugenics. Killing Jews, communists, socialists, non-chosen peoples and other so called undesirables is downstream of ethnonationalism, not the other way around.
It is not possible for me to tell if you are doing bad faith nazi apologia or if you are just ignorantly doing nazi apologia because of lifelong exposure to anticommunist brainworms. If you are actually good faith about wanting to understand fascism and nazism in ukraine then I encourage you to spend time reading the news comm and various theory about the origins and definition of nazism and fascism.
Regardless, I am temp banning you for the time being because nazi apologism has absolutely no place on this board. If you are willing to learn, demonstrate that willingness with whatever you post in a month.