I want to understand it but everything I read about it oscillates impossibly between vulgar metals -> gold and some kind of spiritual transformation metaphysical stuff

What is it and what can be legit gleaned from it in an empirical or useful sense?

Does it have utility outside of use as a metaphor or allegory or whatever?

  • Call me Lenny/Leni
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    2 months ago

    I breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. So no, alchemy is real. Just not with metals, unless you’re talking about eating a bar of gold and having it turn into a substance called shit, though you’ll be in the bathroom for a long, long time.

    If it could be done with metals, we would’ve seen a lot more hyperinflation in history, and alchemists were typically people appointed by monarchs who planned to farm that wealth for themselves, which reflects their thirst for pizzazz more than anything actually fascinating.

    • Tazerface@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      2 months ago

      We breath in air not oxygen. We do remove the some of the oxygen and exhale what’s leftover. This is biology, not alchemy.

        • Tazerface@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          2 months ago

          I define alchemy as pseudoscience, woo, or bullshit.

          This is how I define anything that doesn’t have evidence of it’s existence.

          • Call me Lenny/Leni
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            12
            ·
            2 months ago

            How is literally inhaling one element and exhaling another not evidence?

            • Moghul@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              2 months ago

              CO2 isn’t even an element… It’s not evidence because the premise is incorrect in the first place. O2 from the air you inhale is tied to C in your body and exhaled. Nothing happens to the O2, it doesn’t change. You don’t even tie all the O2 you inhale to C.

              • Call me Lenny/Leni
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                2 months ago

                It’s still certain amounts of one thing becoming another thing.

                • Susaga@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  A man enters a room and leaves with a box. In the process of picking up the box, he became a man carrying a box. This is not transmutation.

                  I put some beans on my toast. In the process, it becomes beans on toast. This is not transmutation.

                  Two things became one combination of two things. Neither thing has fundamentally changed.

                  • Call me Lenny/Leni
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    9
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    A man is asked to deliver supplies to an office. He walks through the whole building, entering through the front door, through the office, and out the backdoor. What was the point?

                    If there is absolutely no changing going on, this would be an analogy for what oxygen does in the blood, no?

                • Moghul@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  No thing is becoming any other thing. 2 things, one from the air and one from your body are getting tied together.

                  • Call me Lenny/Leni
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    7
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    Something still happens to some of it, the reason we often speak of doing it in excess. Heck, when a baby is conceived, the atoms in the embryo (and by extension the maturing human once born) don’t arise out of nowhere, their atoms have to be converted from something, as matter cannot be created or destroyed, only modified. Or if I understand what you’re saying another way, it’s like saying everything is just protons, neutrons, and electrons/positrons.

            • Vanth@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              We don’t inhale a single element and exhale another. We inhale air, a mixture of gas compounds and exhale another mixture after our bodies use and rearrange some of it. By mole fraction (i.e., by quantity of molecules), dry air contains 78.08% nitrogen (N2), 20.95% oxygen (O2), 0.93% argon (Ar), 0.03% carbon dioxide (CO2), and small amounts of other trace gases.

              We do not inhale pure oxygen atoms, O, and turn them into carbon dioxide molecules, CO2.

              The base element, O, is highly reactive and isn’t even in the mix we breathe. The air we breathe contains O2, two oxygen atoms bonded together. O2 is used by our bodies to break down ATP for energy, recombining and resulting in CO2 and other byproducts. Those O atoms that made up O2 are still there, now just bonded into CO2 molecules.

              Biology and chemistry, not alchemy. Compounds changing, not elements.

              Unless you want to define alchemy erroneously and way more broadly. In which case every time I take a shit, I’m an alchemist because I’m taking food molecules, pulling some things out of them, and discarding the changed output.

                • Vanth@reddthat.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 months ago

                  That’s not alchemy. Alchemy was changing elements, specifically not-gold metals into gold, not just molecules.

                  You can turn copper + zinc into brass, but the atoms of copper and zinc still exist within brass. You can’t turn a copper atom into a zinc atom.

                  You can mix gold atoms with something else to make a gold alloy, you can’t change gold atoms into something else or vice versa.

                  • Call me Lenny/Leni
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    7
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    If you were to eat one though, and then you pooped it out, is it still the metal it started out as, complete with its original magnetism?

            • 🐋 Color 🔱 ♀
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              2 months ago

              We inhale air, which is composed of nitrogen, oxygen, and small amounts of other gasses such as carbon dioxide, hydrogen and neon. Carbon dioxide is not an element, but a compound. Elements are things composed of only one type of atom, wheras compounds, such as carbon dioxide, are composed of more than one type of atom, specifically two oxygen atoms and one carbon atom.

              We inhale oxygen and carbon dioxide from the air, it’s just that when we exhale the ratios are different. When we exhale we also breathe out oxygen as well since not all of it gets absorbed. In order to change an element from one to another, you need to do nuclear reactions. Our bodies can change one compound to another but that’s a whole different story (and much less fun than nuclear reactions). I hope this helped! 😃

                • 🐋 Color 🔱 ♀
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  The elements aren’t being converted into other elements (for example, converting lead atoms into gold atoms). The only conversions taking place are chemical reactions, where compounds are either forming or being broken down.

            • Tazerface@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              Air is not an element. It is composed of Nitrogen, Oxygen, CO2, Argon, and trace gases. https://earthhow.com/earth-atmosphere-composition/

              You do know what an element is, right?

              Breathing out CO2 is not evidence of alchemy because it’s in the air we breathe in. We aren’t creating CO2.

              Learn some grade 3 science.

              Dollars to donuts you are a flatearther.

              • Susaga@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                I don’t know about being a flat earther, but I know for a fact they’re a moon landing denier. Very unkeen on evidence, that one.

              • Call me Lenny/Leni
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                2 months ago

                These are elements.

                With some of them playing prominent roles due to something that is well-researched (dollars to donuts you don’t like to question things but instead point and say “flat earther” to get out of things; I’m just running on intellect that ironically the same people who criticize me have given).

                If CO2 emissions were seen an issue, and everything the body produces was never actually produced in the first place, you’d think one of the solutions wouldn’t be cutting down on steak and killing whales (and before a certain someone interprets this wrong and says I’m a climate change denier, I’m not), that some organism somewhere could cheat the ecosystem by eating byproducts, that if you eat metal either you or your byproducts would be magnetic, that animal venom or allergic reactions would be a little less of an issue, that killing animals wouldn’t be said to release more carbon than killing plants releases oxygen, or that bananas wouldn’t produce antimatter, you know, something that’s not even supposed to exist on Earth. At this point I might as well feel prepared for this kind of scrutiny at this point.

                  • Call me Lenny/Leni
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    You say that like that makes it good form or critical form in conversation or that you are going at me on an individual point basis. I even have sources (for example, doesn’t that undermine HeLa cells). Do you expect people in every disagreeable encounter to see someone objecting to their claim and be like “yeah, uhm, I’ll just phrase everything as a question towards myself/others now and go into disciple mode”. I’ve been forced to do a suspicious amount of that here.

                    If I was taking your approach, I’d point at you and say “lizard people believer”. In all of my time watching politics, I can’t remember a single time it escalated so much that someone on TV said “that Republican probably believes the Earth is flat”, as they for one don’t go that far. Must I clarify all my beliefs in existence before questioning someone or something so that people don’t point at me during a debate about, say, which way the toilet paper goes, and say “she probably believes chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows”?

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      I’ve heard its chemicaly/“physicsly” possible but involves messy particle smashing and other largely expensive/messy/theoretical processes that aren’t worth the squeeze as of yet

        • Vanth@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          … You know women aren’t spontaneously creating gold atoms, right? That’s trace gold that gets into our systems from food, water, meds.

          • Call me Lenny/Leni
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            That was kinda my point. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, only modified. Everything in the body was originally something else.

            • Vanth@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              2 months ago

              Again, you don’t seem to be familiar with the difference between an element and a compound and how that relates to alchemy. Best wishes on your journey of learning, I think I’m done now. If you want to learn more, I suggest you find some YouTube videos on chemistry or books or whatever your preferred learning medium is.