• barsoap
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    Traditional standing, yes, as colonial empire. It may be cheeky but why would it be bad standing up against that?

    You know what Russia could have done to prevent NATO expansion? Not invade Moldova, not invade Georgia, and deal with Chechnya in a manner that doesn’t smell of genocide. Make sure that Eastern Europe doesn’t feel threatened so that they don’t feel the need to join NATO. Of course the Baltics, Poland, etc, joined, they don’t want to repeat the experience of being a Russian colony.

    And just for the record no I’m not actually a fan of NATO, or better put the US being part of the whole shebang. Only positive thing about that is that without Europe in the mix the yanks would likely be even worse.

    • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      they have that standing because they have the guns. They still have the guns so they still have the standing

      those rules don’t just exist for no reason they are to prevent war between the powers in Europe break those rules and you risk war. It doesn’t matter what the Balkans and Poland think they don’t have nuclear weapons

      • barsoap
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        Oh yes Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine not being in NATO totally prevented war. How could I forget.

        It doesn’t matter what the Balkans and Poland think

        You’re a hexbear, so presumably self-identify as being on the left. Which then leads me to the question of WTF are you pushing talking points of geopolitical realists, “there are players and there are chess pieces”.

        It very much matters what those states think because, as sovereign states, they enjoy freedom of alliance. To deny that means that you think it is all nice and proper for Russia to still treat them as colonies.

        • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          10 months ago

          It very much matters what those states think because, as sovereign states, they enjoy freedom of alliance

          I don’t want to be allied with them because they bring nothing to an alliance except liability.

          Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine not being in NATO prevented war between Russia and America, Britain, and France. And that is the big war that can’t be allowed to happen

          this isn’t a new phenomenon we are talking about the great game of empire and there are very good reasons why it was always the conventional wisdom to not mess with Russia over eastern Europe. If they are sovereign states then let them be sovereign states and deal with problems on their own

          • barsoap
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            10 months ago

            the great game of empire and there are very good reasons why it was always the conventional wisdom

            That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they’ll wait for a bit and then take an arm.

            You seem to be completely realism-pilled. I have my issues with Kraut but watch this, it’s good stuff.

            If they are sovereign states then let them be sovereign states and deal with problems on their own

            If they are unemployed and homeless then let them be independent and deal with problems on their own. The fuck. And you call yourself a leftist.

            • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              edit-2
              10 months ago

              That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they’ll wait for a bit and then take an arm.

              I agree, the US should be forcibly disbanded by an international peacekeeping force after the last two centuries of imperialism and genocide. No point in waiting for us to get worse, we need to be stopped now.

              • You joke (I think) but you actually illustrate why so many people are supporting Ukraine. The reaction of a lot of people to “the US should be forcibly disbanded by an international peacekeeping force” would be one of indignation and fury at the suggestion that foreign powers should violate one’s home and put their loved ones in danger in order to satisfy global political objectives.

                • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  10 months ago

                  Uhh given the last eight years of ethnic cleansing in the Donbas region by our coup regime in Ukraine, it’s really a better example of why so mamy countries around the world are supporting the russian federation here.

              • barsoap
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                I appreciate the sentiment but I don’t want to see what certain states will be up to if they don’t have the federal level to keep them in check.

            • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              10 months ago

              That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they’ll wait for a bit and then take an arm.

              No it’s called a sphere of influence and it’s just playing by the old cold war rules.

              If they are unemployed and homeless then let them be independent and deal with problems on their own. The fuck.

              countries are not people.

              • barsoap
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                No it’s called a sphere of influence

                You say that as if geopolitical realism was the truth to end all inquiry, the insight to end all history.

                  • barsoap
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    10 months ago

                    Watch that Kraut video. It’s not my responsibility to educate you.

          • barsoap
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            10 months ago

            Because there’s people living in those countries.

            Go on, write a letter to an imaginary 6yold niece of yours in Mariopol explaining why it’s better that she lives in a mafia-run police state, than for Ukraine to decide its own fate.

            Also, states generally refuse to be poker chips, and they have all right to do so. Thus, by insisting that they be, you invariably create conflict.